This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
I'm surprised that you're giving the FBI any good faith at all. Not intending this as some kind of gotcha, but did you pay attention to the crossfire hurricane scandal and the Mueller probe? There's so much bad faith and naked criminality in the FBI that I can't imagine trusting them at all (to say nothing of their hobby of manufacturing terror plots).
Crossfire hurricane scandel? Where can I read more about this?
That's a good question and I honestly don't have a solid resource for you. I followed the scandal as it developed over time, and that means that I can't really give you a single unified source on it - but for the record, the Crossfire Hurricane probe was what eventually got turned into the Mueller special counsel.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
Where do you see me giving the FBI any good faith? The post your responding to was a story expressing skepticism to the point of disbelief because the misconduct I witnessed was conducted so casually that I wondered if I was missing something (I wasn't).
Oh, I meant that initial "it's not plausible that they're casually [redacted] on video, I must be misunderstanding something." reaction. That's far more faith than I'd give the FBI.
I don't know if this is missing context but I was talking about my work as a criminal defense attorney. I wasn't talking about FBI agents, these were just some random detectives. Across hundreds and hundreds of cases, I watch a lot of very boring video footage that mostly shows my client acting like a total dipshit and the cops being dutiful about their jobs and I get lulled into a sort of slumber. So when I do see clear instances of casual misconduct, for a moment it feels like I'm the victim of a optical illusion because it's just so damn unusual to get it on video.
The good news in this [real case I'm being super vague about] is that my job is explicitly not to assume good faith. So I conducted my own investigation and felt confident enough I did my homework before launching my broadside motion. The cops did not do well during cross-examination and the judge agreed with my argument and explicitly found them to be lying. They were very much not happy with me given the career consequences involved.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link