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Yes, and I'm in the process of persuading society that there should be no consequences for this particular thing, Do you mind?
Would you like to participate in the conversation, or continue making the unrelated observation about the arbitrariness of social conventions?
Well if you admit that is exactly what you are trying to do, it isn't unrelated is it?
Remember we are here to discuss the culture war not wage it. If you are trying to persuade society here 1) This is not the venue for that. 2) You'd be better off somewhere with significant "normie" presence.
Its absolutely fine to use arguments as soldiers, but at the very least here you should be upfront about that.
Hence my meta commentary.
It absolutely is! I'll believe you that you think it's related, if you can link me to a comment where you argue, using that logic, in favor of a point you disagree with.
That doesn't mean you get to derail any conversation with "it's all relative, man".
If I comment on something you said, pointing out that it is overly broad and that it applies to any attempt to force preferences, and indeed that many of your preferences are forced right now, and then you say yes that is what you were doing, trying to force preferences, then logically those things are related. So I don't have to prove anything from any prior comment. Everything needed to determine if I am correct or not is contained in this chain. It's not really relevant whether you believe I believe those things are related or not. That is entirely up to you.
Having said that, it doesn't matter whether I think you are correct not, just that the justification for your position is weak. Don't mistake me criticizing your logic for the fact I disagree with your position. Your statement was I think false. People's rights to do X does not in fact end when you are forced to do Y. Maybe it should end there, but it clearly doesn't (which you yourself seem to admit). Given that, using it as an argument makes your position weaker as it is easily rebutted. I am not saying change your position, I am saying make a better argument that fits with how things actually work.
You can feel free to take my word that I am up front or not. And if you feel I am derailing the conversation, you do not have to respond. No harm, no foul on my end at least.
No, i said I'm trying to persuade people that a preference isn't worth forcing.
Yup, like I said, I'm going to need some evidence to accept that you are.
A distinction with no difference. If I am trying to persuade people calling Doctors Dr is a preference not worth forcing, then i am practically going to have to persuade them to shame those who do prefer to use Dr and who are pushing for that. Thats part of how a social convention becomes one. By making it judged positively if you do it and judged negatively if you do not.
You just have to look at how well, "hate the sin not the sinner" worked. In general it leads to hating the sinner by proxy. An attempt to set a social norm that people do not have to say Dr, will lead to people who do say Dr to be judged.
And if you require proof of good faith, I think you may have misjudged the purpose of the space. My arguments are at face value and i assume yours are as well. Otherwise whats the point of even being here?
If A == !A then it's not that your argument is not relevant, it's meaningless.
No I don't. Most arguments here happen with shaming. In fact, shaming is against the rules.
Even though waging the culture war is against the rules, people still do it. Last I checked it was still ok to point out someone is doing it, and I think you are doing it here.
Social norms in the real world involve shaming, here we try to avoid that you are correct. But we are discussing how general people act not how Motteizens act. We are not generally "normies" after all.
You yourself admitted you were trying to influence norms rather than simply making an argument, so how me calling you out for that is culture warring i do not know. I am saying not to do that.
But I don't want to impose a social norm. Also, the more I think about it, the more I think you're just plain wrong. Some of them do, some of them don't.
Trying to persuade someone by making an argument, is not culture war.
Selectively applying a meta argument to only one side of the conversation, when it fits both equally well, is.
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