This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
I agree, which is why I label it as the most important job for Feminism to help promote the careers of professional women.
I cited only examples of men because I am a man, I experience life as a man, so it's easier to write, and the post was long enough without getting into women. But I think women suffer from an equally destructive set of societal expectations in today's world. A pretty girl used to be pretty enough if she was top ten in a high school class of one hundred, now she has to be prettier than thousands, pretty on a scalable level. But also a young professional girlboss, but not too successful then men won't like you; smart but not too smart. A 40 year old middle class housewife 100 years ago had pride, easy and carefree, secure in her home in her husband in her children in her place in the community. Today we expect women to be all things at all times, and we never give them security. We expect a 40 year old woman to fuck like Samantha from Sex and the City, to Lean In like Sheryl Sandberg, to mother like a Mormon mommy blogger, or maybe to Tiger Mom like Amy Chua, to craft and decorate like an Insta influencer, to never get old but never be young and naive either. She is to raise her kids to be independent and leave her and maybe call her once a month after, she is to love her husband who at any time might leave her alone having wasted her first fruits in sacrifice to a false promise of forever.*
Transmen equally view being male as an accomplishment, as a project to create meaning in their lives. Transmen are satisfied with being male, they don't have to strive to be ubermensch when mensch is good enough.
*Very, vanishingly few women benefit from divorce. It is mostly a negative sum transaction. It is popular for men to view themselves as the victims, and therefore women as the putative victors; in reality as in Roadhouse nobody even won a fight.
More options
Context Copy link