site banner
naraburns  nihil supernum  1yr ago (text post)   33348 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of February 27, 2023

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

10
Top Bottom Old Controversial Comments
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

Is that true?

I assume you’re thinking of trans issues. That’s the only thing on OP’s list where I’ve seen treatment focused on bringing the physical in line with the mental. Well, there’s physical therapy and prosthetics, but that’s beside the point. Anxiety, depression, et cetera…the intent is to mitigate them.

DBT was developed for people who experience extreme emotional responses to certain situations. “It’s essentially about learning how to think in a way that calms you down in moments of crisis,” explains Johnsen. “The goal is to center yourself so that you can get back to rational thought and behavior more quickly. Eventually, you should be able to catch yourself and learn to curb overreaction before it occurs.”

DBT is a “gold standard” in treating conditions like borderline personality disorder (a chronic behavior pattern that may include mood instability, difficulty with interpersonal relationships, and self-injury) and histrionic personality disorder (which entails constant attention-seeking, emotional overreaction, and seductive behavior) but can be used to treat anyone who experiences over-reactivity in certain scenarios. “It’s an in-the-moment technique that a person can use to regulate super-strong emotions, and get to a place where those emotions are bearable and surmountable.”

Source. The last couple options on that page lean away from coping strategies, but they still aren’t normalizing the symptoms.

It might also be worth noting that the response to mental illness isn’t exactly coordinated. Political slogans, softball media coverage, and Twitter—avenues of cultural reinforcement—don’t fall in line with therapists. Arguably, it’s the other way around, since motivated patients can select their way to a sympathetic therapist.

Anxiety, depression, et cetera…the intent is to mitigate them.

I'm not sure exactly what the modes of mitigation are, and if they're applied consistently. I guess I'm reacting more to the "pop psychology" reaction to these issues that you see in the media, and the effusive affirmations that now greet announcements of mental illness.

For anxiety and depression, my assumption is that the treatment for these has at least shifted from a "get over it" approach to a "this is very normal and valid" approach, even if the latter was originally intended as a way to end-run around the obvious objections to "get over it" while still helping them get over it. Now, the mode seems to be helping the patient feel better about their affliction rather than removing the affliction, as if the stigma of a mental health problem is more important than the mental health problem.

I'm wondering if it might also depend on the demographics of the patient. I have a hard time imagining that the treatment approach (across a broad swath of therapists) would be the same for a middle-aged white man who feels paranoid anxiety over romantic issues with women and a young black woman who feels paranoid anxiety over racial discrimination. Is one more likely to be asked to look for internal causes/solutions to their predicament while the other is tasked with better coping skills in the face of injustice? Is a profession that has fallen almost completely in-line with a radically progressive approach to trans issues not going to see that same context start to inform their other treatments?

hasn't it mostly transitioned to therapy and maybe prescribing antidepressants?

What is this place?

This website is a place for people who want to move past shady thinking and test their ideas in a court of people who don't all share the same biases. Our goal is to optimize for light, not heat; this is a group effort, and all commentators are asked to do their part.

The weekly Culture War threads host the most controversial topics and are the most visible aspect of The Motte. However, many other topics are appropriate here. We encourage people to post anything related to science, politics, or philosophy; if in doubt, post!

Check out The Vault for an archive of old quality posts. You are encouraged to crosspost these elsewhere.


Why are you called The Motte?

A motte is a stone keep on a raised earthwork common in early medieval fortifications. More pertinently, it's an element in a rhetorical move called a "Motte-and-Bailey", originally identified by philosopher Nicholas Shackel. It describes the tendency in discourse for people to move from a controversial but high value claim to a defensible but less exciting one upon any resistance to the former. He likens this to the medieval fortification, where a desirable land (the bailey) is abandoned when in danger for the more easily defended motte. In Shackel's words, "The Motte represents the defensible but undesired propositions to which one retreats when hard pressed."

On The Motte, always attempt to remain inside your defensible territory, even if you are not being pressed.


New post guidelines

If you're posting something that isn't related to the culture war, we encourage you to post a thread for it. A submission statement is highly appreciated, but isn't necessary for text posts or links to largely-text posts such as blogs or news articles; if we're unsure of the value of your post, we might remove it until you add a submission statement. A submission statement is required for non-text sources (videos, podcasts, images).

Culture war posts go in the culture war thread; all links must either include a submission statement or significant commentary. Bare links without those will be removed.

If in doubt, please post it!


Rules


Recommended Posts And Communities

Recommended Realtime Chats