This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Does moldbug feel obligated to oppose Ukraine out of contrarianism? I’d expect him to find a blood-and-soil angle palatable, if only that didn’t put him on the same side of the argument as neoliberals. Imperialism is apparently much cooler when someone else does it.
Skimming the actual article, it starts off weak. One part boilerplate anti-Ukraine doomerism: I definitely saw the “war of artillery” industrial argument deployed here months ago, and our resident partisans did a much better job. Two parts shameless speculation on precisely which moral failings could have led the US to such foolishness:
What a tool.
He segues into a more conventional, for moldbug, rant about
demotismliberal nationalism. Suffice to say that it consists of nebulous philosophy and bad historical analysis. There’s a damning contrast between his descriptions of liberal oligarch masters, to whose every whim public opinion may be bent, and his portrayal of the outdated strategies which they choose to pursue. Truly, the enemy must be both strong and weak.He is more an "IQ nationalist" then an enthonationalist, see his writings on Greek nationalism and decolonization. So him opposing Ukranian indeoedence isn't a big devation, or a deviation at all from his work.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link