site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of February 6, 2023

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

11
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

Hey, I'm sorry it took me so long to reply. I wrote a reply but brave refreshed and I lost it all, and since then I have been off for work. Anyway I basically got what you meant by directionally correct completely backwards. And the things I will consume were plumbing the depths, not my whole diet. But you are definitely right about how easy it can be to get lost in content, nigh valueless super-stimuli relying on a plausibly obfuscated absence of originality, where even the twists are expected - audio-visual codeine and tums. Which is why I always appreciate it when you link Russian (or mostly Russian) authors, you are my only exposure to them. I haven't found The River Sparkles, but I did find a copy of The Murmuring Forest and Other Stories at the Esk library (!), so I am reading that now.

Thanks!

The River Sparkles was just a random obscure little thing I've been listening to at the moment. You can read Nabokov or something, thankfully he wrote directly in English. My favorite work of his is probably Invitation to a Beheading, though I've started Ada recently and it's already competitive. Kuprin is great too... Of course there are tons of increadible non-Russian authors.

It takes effort (and, in my case, took years – Russians tend to develop allergy when we have Dostoyevsky etc. forced down our throats by midwitted teachers with poor understanding of the source material in school) to start appreciating «old» literature, but what's remarkable is that the impression of it being slow-paced and non-stimulating is false. Those authors were highly intelligent and it's actually very dense in information and psychological detail, just not in poorly thought-out narrative events.