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naraburns  nihil supernum  1yr ago (text post)   34937 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of January 30, 2023

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I don’t think the US can be exhausted. We are not a poor nation.

Exhaustion as in "according to polls stopping funding Ukraine gives us 2 extra percentage points"

Public opinion has to have a direct effect

on voting to sway politicians. The American public will never vote for one guy over another because he wants to send 1/1000th less of the yearly budget to Ukraine.

I want to stop funding Ukraine. Think it’s absurd when facing these massive deficits we are borrowing about 100b to fund Ukraine. Yes it isn’t causing the deficit but it sure ain’t helping.

What is your source on the US borrowing $100 billion to fund Ukraine? The total aid according to this article is worth only $50 billion, and most of that is in-kind (old weapons stockpiles etc.) and not financial.

Here says 66b was approved by congress prior to the Omni bill at end of 2022 which promised another 48b.

https://www.factcheck.org/2022/12/u-s-aid-to-ukraine-explained/

Granted, maybe some of it is in kind. But still we’ve committed to use over 100b of assets.

But still we’ve committed to use over 100b of assets.

Note that it is much, much different from "we are borrowing about 100b to fund Ukraine". To the point that "we are borrowing about 100b to fund Ukraine" claim is untrue.

I agree it was overstated but “much, much different” is also an overstatement. A bank for example takes into account assets.

As I understand, vast majority of what is supplied to Ukraine is either

  • intended to fight Russia in the first place

  • scheduled to be disposed or would be decommissioned soon

  • without clear purpose anyway (for example confiscated smuggled weaponry)

  • send as live testing of previously untested weapons

  • send to demonstrate just how great USA weapons are (speculative, but that may be one of reasons for HIMARS)

  • in multiple above categories

I mean, personally, as a left-winger, I'm glad some of our bloated defense department budget is finally get put to use for a good reason for once. If we have to "spend" (ie. send basically our leftover equipment in the back of the garage to Ukraine) a stupidly small amount of GDP to turn Russia into a wreck, win-win.

I’m not sure turning Russia into a wreck is a win-win (do we really want a de stabilized nuclear power)?

I just wish we’d cut military spending (including Ukraine spending).

As other people have pointed out, a Russia engaged largely in their own internal political (and possibly actual) knifing each other in the back over the failures of the Ukraine invasion is a nation that's far less able to cause issues on the world stage, even if somebody to Putin's right comes to power. Because it may take a decade-plus for said new guy to centralize his power the way Putin did. After all, Putin wasn't Putin until the end of the 2000's, really.

Russia, despite it's myriad of issues, has basically zero chance of becoming a "failed state" the way say, you could argue Syria, some African countries, etc. are, because Russia is still, by global standards, fairly wealthy with a lot of resosurces. They're currently messing that up, but they can mess it up to a far larger degree and still be OK (of course, the US can mess up to about 1,000x more degrees and still be fine.)

Now, obviously, an actual civil war in Russia would be bad, but that's honestly, incredibly unlikely to happen.

The issue is more “nuclear weapon(s) fall(s) into the wrong hands in a chaotic situation.”

do we really want a de stabilized nuclear power

Russia has been least dangerous to its neighbours when least stable and powerful: 1921-1938, when it was still devastated from WWI and its elite was eating itself, then 1992 to 2007, when it was an economic and political mess. The long term strategy of successive generations of Russian leaders, going back far beyond living memory, has been to develop a frontier of buffer vassal or neutraliased states as far as possible, stopping only when encountering resistance. Thus, Russia is only not a danger to its neighbours when it is weak.

Selfishly, I am not a neighbor of Russia. But if Russia for example became a failed state with a large deposits of nuclear warheads, that seems like a problem that could affect me.

I’m not sure turning Russia into a wreck is a win-win

Depends on comparison

do we really want a de stabilized nuclear power

They already destabilized themself by invading Ukraine, preferably they would not be also victorious.

I really doubt it. Maybe if there were Americans dying on the ground for nothing like Iraq.

But Biden's party hates Putin and the MIC is very good at finding enough slack in the democratic process to continue working, except when there really is an overwhelming, bipartisan counter-reaction (like Iraq).

Rest of the time they seem to get away with throwing arms and funding at the conflicts they want.

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