someone_from_poland
themotte.org was entertaining for a while but for me it just proves that contrarianism for sake of contrarianism is a bad strategy.
Contrarian is far more likely to be wrong than correct or useful.
User ID: 2097
someone_from_poland
1yr ago
I’m not sure turning Russia into a wreck is a win-win
Depends on comparison
do we really want a de stabilized nuclear power
They already destabilized themself by invading Ukraine, preferably they would not be also victorious.
someone_from_poland
1yr ago
I feel like Poles need to recuse themselves from talking about Russia entirely.
I can do it in exchange of Russians recusing themselves from invading countries in Europe (I am single person but just recusing from specific way of murdering other people in specific part of the world is much smaller sacrifice, or at least it should be).
someone_from_poland
1yr ago
Russian state TV had claims that Poland will partition Ukraine, though they were rather lying about plans to cooperate than accuse. I think.
There were also unverified but relatively credible claims that politicians in Poland had offers from Russian officials about participating in invading/partitioning Ukraine, for many years.
Obviously that would be idiotic for multiple reasons. At least it turns out that sometimes people manage to learn something from history, even politicians.
The original purpose of NATO was to counter USSR, not Russia. There was no country called 'Russia' in 1949 when it was created.
As far as geopolitics are concerned there is a clear succession from Grand Duchy of Moscow, Tsardom of Russia, Russian Empire, Russian Socialist Federative Soviet Republic, USSR and Russian Federation.
I use Russia to refer to imperialist, aggressive and problematic country that used to be named USSR and after it got less powerful and lost ability to occupy part of invaded areas rebranded itself to Russian Federation.
I have. Have you? Here's words directly from horse's mouth.
Have you noticed "George Robertson recalls Russian president did not want to wait in line with ‘countries that don’t matter’" line? Exactly the first sentence of the article and clearly presenting that Russia was not ready to get rid of primary problem - its imperialistic ambitions.
And even if we assume that ‘countries that don’t matter’ is misinterpretation and "did not want to wait in line" is understandable... Then "did not want his country to have to go through the usual application process" from the first paragraph below photo is not at all.
Germany managed to give up militaristic imperial ambitions, hopefully Russia will crash and burn during current war enough to do the same and without selling their nukes to Iran or something.
Putin told Frost he would not rule out joining Nato “if and when Russia’s views are taken into account as those of an equal partner”.
Russia was not ready to be an equal partner, see above.
someone_from_poland
1yr ago
As I understand, vast majority of what is supplied to Ukraine is either
-
intended to fight Russia in the first place
-
scheduled to be disposed or would be decommissioned soon
-
without clear purpose anyway (for example confiscated smuggled weaponry)
-
send as live testing of previously untested weapons
-
send to demonstrate just how great USA weapons are (speculative, but that may be one of reasons for HIMARS)
-
in multiple above categories
someone_from_poland
1yr ago
This is far more attractive to women than saying "please say yes to sex with me" or any variant of that.
[citation needed]
I am not disputing that some get off on it, I am disputing that all or even majority would consider "grab her and drag her into your cave and take her" as actually attractive.
I would expect that more than 99.999% of woman would prefer to not be raped.
This does not mean that they want doormat as partner or someone powerless! But if anyone considers that being rapist is more desirable by woman than equally powerful and attractive etc person that is not a rapist then they are heavily misinformed and dangerous.
I guess that rich, powerful charismatic powerful rapist may be more attractive than poor lame doormat - which is not changing that "rapist" part is not really helping here.
Situation is made worse by people who cannot imagine other expression of masculinity than through a rape, both on male (red pill "how to get prostitute for free" vision of relationship) and female spectrum (bad romance stories).
someone_from_poland
1yr ago
Actual rape results in a bad unjustified consequences for someone who was raped, for start.
(there is a good reason why writing or painting media showing or describing rape is considered as distinct from rape)
someone_from_poland
1yr ago
This is pure PC nonsense. Would you apply the same logic to pedos and child porn?
Yes, broadly defined. Lolicon ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lolicon - includes NSFW images) vs raping children seems to mirror rape fantasies vs actually being raped.
(disclaimer: I am not an expert on this topics nor done research in either topic nor have a personal experience)
someone_from_poland
1yr ago
Girls and feminists now claim this to scare unworthy men from pursuing them. Since the worthy ones will just ignore their claimed victim hood and realize they like male attention.
I am perfectly fine with not having relationship with stupid people with tragically idiotic mind games.
This subset of woman (I really doubt that feminists are over-represented there, BTW) can deal with consequences, people pursuing this strategy will end either with rapes/attempted rapes or in relationship with stupid manipulative people. Does not seem like a good strategy to me.
And anyway: vast majority is actually not interested and "rape them until they like it" is existing only in really bad porn - and not a viable dating strategy.
someone_from_poland
1yr ago
Russia gets defanged at very low risk to NATO soldiers (including American ones) and at relatively low cost.
And without defaulting on USA treaties and alliances.
someone_from_poland
1yr ago
Most of us are living in areas that has many incentives ensuring that people are generally not killing each other.
someone_from_poland
1yr ago
-
I do not believe that what you describe happened
-
If it actually happened then it is outlier of the millioner-with-private-rape island variety
-
If it happened then "WAT", especially at anyone staying there. I took emergency exists from less degenerated events.
-
I will close Motte tabs because that is not even entertaining unlike bad takes on Russia
someone_from_poland
1yr ago
Phrasing this as "consequences of this precedent would be horribly bad and really unwanted" would be a better phrasing.
"there's no limiting factor" is clearly false, for start it hits one of theoretical extreme limits at conquering entire humanity. You cannot extort for example Jupiter or gravity with nukes.
someone_from_poland
1yr ago
He wanted Russia to be accepted into 'the West' (or I should say NATO).
Obviously. Given that purpose of NATO was to counter Russia[1] (for very good reason) and Russian aggression, especially in Europe, then getting fox into henhouse and wrecking it would be a great idea. For Putin and Russian imperialism.
Fortunately it has not happened.
[1] At least from perspective of Poland.
but as a peer
Have you read source that you provided? This is untrue claim and contradicted by your own source.
No, it is false.
NATO giving Ukraine funds used in part to pay its soldiers does not make them mercenary.
In the same way as me putting money into household budget does not make my wife a prostitute.
Someone fighting because they are paid (mercenary) is highly distinct from soldier being paid some wage.
In similar same way as prostitutes in are highly distinct from wives, despite that sex and money is involved somehow in both cases.
Or rape victim getting monetary compensation for what happened does not make her or him a prostitute.
(yeah, some overlap may happen - not applicable in this case, there is exactly 0 NATO mercenaries in Ukraine as far as I know, and as far as I know there is 0 NATO mercenaries worldwide).
someone_from_poland
1yr ago
Control of Taiwan is endangering Chinese shipping lanes in a major way.
In which way?
someone_from_poland
1yr ago
But still we’ve committed to use over 100b of assets.
Note that it is much, much different from "we are borrowing about 100b to fund Ukraine". To the point that "we are borrowing about 100b to fund Ukraine" claim is untrue.
someone_from_poland
1yr ago
Agree to a healthy buffer zone in Eastern Europe?
Nope. If you let Russia reconquer this area again then it may be many things but it will not be healthy.
someone_from_poland
1yr ago
Russia is not an empire with a real strength, should not be an empire and is not entitled to be an empire.
And even that war would result in less misery than Russia managing to recreate its empire and subjugate central and eastern Europe again.
someone_from_poland
1yr ago
I don’t think the mercenary label for US interest is misleading.
Describing Ukraine as deciding to be involved in war because they are paid for this is not matching what is actually happening. At all.
So it is heavily misleading.
but I'm not sure why people are insistent or implying that the US has been actively seeking peace in contrast.
And my claim is that USA was not antagonistic enough and that Russians for example fooled Obama into Russian reset (or that Americans fooled themselves into it on their own).
So sure, maybe the US was not actively seeking war, but at best they weren't really taking efforts to ensure peaceble relations either.
What they were supposed to do? One option would be helping Russia to keep occupied areas after USSR has fallen but I am not convinced that it would end better in any aspect.
USA can be blamed for many wars, but here Russia jumped into it on their own due to believing own propaganda and trying to rebuild its empire. Russia is not entitled to USSR-sized sphere of influence.
"NATO mercenary" has specific meaning. Is there any actual proof that NATO is sending its mercenaries? Or that NATO even has mercenaries to send?
Since Ukraines economy has significantly shrunk who do you think is funding that.
Well, countries during war have will to do drastic action like fire sale of resources, extra taxes, printing massive amount of money, dept repaid later for decades or centuries or never repaid, repurposing production, suspending labour laws...
To say nothing that people often are actually do much more than usual to spite people bombing them, especially of that is stuff like denouncing tax fraud.
"country at war manages to increase funding of military despite economic contraction" is not proving much
someone_from_poland
1yr ago
I don’t think the US can be exhausted. We are not a poor nation.
Exhaustion as in "according to polls stopping funding Ukraine gives us 2 extra percentage points"
someone_from_poland
1yr ago
If we can’t defend Ukraine, why would we be able to protect our Asian Allies in Korea or Japan?
From realpolitik perspective the use of war in Ukraine for NATO and USA is not defending Ukraine. It is defending NATO countries and inflicting damage on Russia by helping Ukraine to defend itself.
Also, Japan, really? Attempt to invade Japan would have hilarious effects.
I will happily admit that yes, whether I or my family or my nation will be oppressed by Russia means to me more than X million dead in second Congo civil war or gas price.
Second, I am fine with "acknowledging its interests" - and then countering where interests diverge from ours.
Third, no idea why you think that accepting Russia into NATO would help. They would still do the same, and would make harder to counter them.
More options
Context Copy link