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naraburns  nihil supernum  1yr ago (text post)   31612 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of January 16, 2023

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I won't try to defend my post; if people take it as bullying and mean-spirited it's not my place to argue, only knock it off.

Say what? You wrote the post man, you know better than anyone else how bullying and mean spirited you meant it to be. You copped a warning for the op because it got a lot of reports apparently - what would you do if it was reported by people who have decided you are a leftist and therefore should be shut up? Would you still knock it off to accommodate them?

Say what? You wrote the post man, you know better than anyone else how bullying and mean spirited you meant it to be.

I generally believe the onus is on the writer to craft something for their audience to appreciate. If the audience doesn't like it or find it useful, either find a new audience or change your style. Telling them that they're wrong seems to be a bit futile.

I've also just adopted a general heuristic of 'if enough people are telling you you're being an asshole, you're probably being an asshole.' I recognize that can be particularly dangerous and opens you up to manipulation by bad actors, but it also transformed my life in college from unhappy friendless loner to being a relatively popular and successful guy.

But I am impressed that people cared enough to argue with mods on my behalf...

what would you do if it was reported by people who have decided you are a leftist and therefore should be shut up? Would you still knock it off to accommodate them?

Well, yeah, probably. If the community wanted to be an echo chamber, who am I to say otherwise?

If you are trying to avoid being an asshole, why did you write a snarky list of people's faults?

Well, yeah, probably. If the community wanted to be an echo chamber, who am I to say otherwise?

A member of the community.

But I am impressed that people cared enough to argue with mods on my behalf...

Yes, other members of the community defended you. It seems we made a mistake.

This matters a lot to me, because some people around here interpret everything I write in the most mean-spirited way possible, when I haven't tried to be mean spirited on the motte in years. Which doesn't mean I can't be mean spirited by accident of course, but take the phrase "You son of a bitch!" for example - depending on your mood, you might read that as anger. But it isn't necessarily angry, it could be excited - "You (magnificent) son of a bitch!", or it could be dismayed - "You son of a bitch! (I can't believe you've done this)", or so on. But if you are in a mood to read it as anger, it will change the tone of the whole post. That doesn't make everyone who interpreted it in the spirit you meant it wrong though. Nor does it make those who interpreted it as anger right. What makes them right is you then saying that the way you meant it doesn't matter compared to what they think. You gave them that power, and as a result made yourself irrelevant.

One part to amuse myself and others, one part because I assumed I would have enough in-group credentials for it to be seen as constructive criticism rather than bullying, one part because I thought it might be useful and improve discussion norms, and one part because I thought people would be mature and secure enough to take it as such. When it comes to my ox, I'm expected to take a lot more than that on the nose and any complaints get thrown in the 'thin-skinned liberals can't handle disagreement' bin.

Yes, other members of the community defended you. It seems we made a mistake.

So it goes.

That doesn't make everyone who interpreted it in the spirit you meant it wrong though. Nor does it make those who interpreted it as anger right. What makes them right is you then saying that the way you meant it doesn't matter compared to what they think. You gave them that power, and as a result made yourself irrelevant.

I disagree. I need to assume that at least some people on the other side of a debate are willing to engage in good faith. You're correct that someone could just react with outrage anytime I wrote anything, until the only opinion I could ever voice was essentially agreement with their position in a polite manner. There's probably some people and some topics where this is true and to be honest I try to avoid them.

This case seems fairly split, but I don't think the people who are upset are entirely acting in bad faith. If you want to use this as an example that people should have thicker skin or extend more charity, by all means, go ahead.

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