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naraburns  nihil supernum  1yr ago (text post)   31623 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of January 9, 2023

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Moral worth is about capacity for suffering. Most people have the intuition that the welfare of children should be prioritized over that of adults, even though children are often less intelligent than adults, have less experience, few life specifics, and take few actions. That's because kids suffer more easily. Since people with Downs, and different human races, have equal capacity for suffering, they also have equal moral worth.

Okay, but plants and fish can suffer just like we can. Yeah, plants! Plants have coordinated physical responses to harmful stimuli. What makes this not 'suffering'?

That's because kids suffer more easily

What do you mean, exactly? Kids cry when they suffer to get the attention of adults, because they're weak and need to be protected while they mature. That's also where the intuition that the welfare of children matters more comes from. Adults cry less because they can explicitly solve problems. Does this necessarily correspond to a 'depth of suffering'?

Okay, but plants and fish can suffer just like we can. Yeah, plants! Plants have coordinated physical responses to harmful stimuli. What makes this not 'suffering'?

This is definitely a legitimate perspective that EAs consider. Shrimp welfare is big in the EA movement for example. I don't know if plants have qualia though.

What do you mean, exactly?

I mean if you take the exact same negative event, and consider its impact on you as an adult vs as a kid, its impact is gonna be lower on you as an adult. E.g. getting a shot at the doctor's office -- it is gonna cause a lot more distress to kid-you than adult-you.

Is distress the measurement of moral worth? For one, if you instantly die, that doesn't cause distress. If a kid was an experienced meditator and didn't cry at age 3 because they understood the empty nature of suffering, that wouldn't make killing them better. All of the other experiences in life are worth causing, and 'preventing a death' causes all of them to continue.

All of the other experiences in life are worth causing, and 'preventing a death' causes all of them to continue.

Agreed, assuming an individual's life has more experiences to celebrate than experiences to mourn. E.g. I'm pro-choice because my guess is that on expectation, an unwanted child will have more experiences to mourn than experiences to celebrate

Most people have the intuition that the welfare of children should be prioritized over that of adults, even though children are often less intelligent than adults, have less experience, few life specifics, and take few actions.

Pretty sure it's the other way around. We prioritize children because they have more life left to life. They have a full lifetime of adult intelligence awaiting them, plus their remaining childhood.

If that were true, there wouldn't be things like Make a Wish to help kids who are about to die be happy.

Nah, same thing. Their deaths are particularly sad, so we make extra efforts to cheer them (and ourselves) up.

That may be, but I think we still prioritize child welfare in other ways -- even ways that don't impact their chance of survival to adulthood.

But those of the least moral worth are people we want to suffer.

Um... in the context of the EA movement at least, we don't want anyone to suffer.

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