site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of January 2, 2023

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

10
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

Thanks for the serious reply. I don't think the internet was always like this, and I don't think this is how it should be, but it is what it is. I think you are right that it is childish behaviour, but you are neglecting that western civilisation is in the grip of arrested development, and perpetual teenagers outnumber adults 100 to 1. I think the turn happened with the advent of social media - Web 2.0 or whatever you want to call it. You can still just kind of march through it all ignoring all the petty bullshit, but when status gamers dominate, not playing is refracted into just a different - dramatically disadvantaged - style of play.

But I also might be using status games wrong. I don't mean to suggest everyone is neurotically analysing every thing they say for how it will affect power relations - there are quite a few people who do that, but I don't think most people think about it at all. You don't have to think "ooh, this will boost my cred with the in crowd", or "I have to agree with this because I want to impress that person" or something like that. It doesn't have to be your primary motivation - it doesn't even have to be a concious motivation. Someone they don't respect tells them something and they become skeptical, but if someone they do respect says it they change their mind. Or laugh at your boss' joke harder than it deserves because he's the boss and because everyone else is laughing. That's what I thought a status game was - and everyone does it, even animals. I was pretty obsessed with reading about animal behaviour when I was a teen, and I thought those things were described as status games, but I might have mixed the term up with something else.

But I would also like to point out that you apologised to me, a stranger, and modified your behaviour.