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naraburns  nihil supernum  1yr ago (text post)   29716 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of December 12, 2022

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If there are people here who believe trans men aren't actually men, I kindly ask that they also provide the criteria for distinguishing men from non-men.

Here's some shared foundational rationality. No matter what a man is or does he cannot - in the logic of transexuality too - be or become a transman. And vice versa for the complementary sex and gender presentation. It's paradoxical. Therefore a transman cannot be a man, and a transwoman cannot be a woman. Only a woman can become a transman. Only a man can become a transwoman. Therefore transwomen aren't women, transmen aren't men, and this accords with the logic of transexuality. They are, charitably, transexual men and transexual women for which I can accept the novel and less ambiguous labels of transwomen and transmen respectively.

Winning, or even arguing the trans-are-actually terminology war for the trans side serves to void its own logos and, if you'll forgive the irony, to argue against it is to bravely support transexuals.

To be explicit, if a transwoman can be a woman then it must subsequently render either the word transwoman or the word woman empty of any meaningful significance. With only net negative meaning to be attained the struggle to claim membership of the pre-existing categories is not only moot but actively counterproductive. If womanhood is meaningless there's no rationale for pursuing it.

Please note, I am not anti-trans actions. I am anti-trans rationale. Adults have been free to change their name, their wardrobe and undergo any elective medical procedures they can afford for decades and while I might not endorse those choices I have no issue tolerating them on the basis that my own choices are tolerated. What I cannot tolerate is being expected to unquestioningly accept a glaringly unignorable contradiction. After that's acknowledged we could get into any broader concerns that may be more based in prejudice than reason.

Here's some shared foundational rationality. No matter what a man is or does he cannot - in the logic of transexuality too - be or become a transman. Only a man can become a transwoman. Therefore transwomen aren't women, transmen aren't men, and this accords with the logic of transexuality.

You're playing word games, by saying "man" and "trans-man" when you are referring to the concepts "cis-man" and "trans-man". When using that language, your post becomes

Here's some shared foundational rationality. No matter what a cisman is or does he cannot - in the logic of transexuality too - be or become a transman. Only a cisman can become a transwoman. Therefore transwomen aren't ciswomen, transmen aren't cismen, and this accords with the logic of transexuality.

If this is not sufficiently illuminating, let's try with the following substitutions:

• cis -> native-born

• trans -> foreign-born

• man -> American

• woman -> Mexican

Here's some shared foundational rationality. No matter what an American is or does he cannot - in the logic of transnationality too - be or become a foreign-born American. Only an American can become a foreign-born Mexican. Therefore foriegn born Mexicans aren't Mexicans, foreign-born Americans aren't Americans, and this accords with the logic of transnationality.

Like you can find people who believe that but it's pretty clearly an argument over where the boundary should be drawn, and saying that it's "shared foundational rationality" is an attempt to consensus-build.

You accuse me of word games and then game my words. Explain how a man can become a transman.

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