This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
For myself, I'm essentially taking the conflict of interest as a strong signal of probable bad faith, as in, a good faith counsel would have noticed the conflict, and assigned the task to someone else. Baker obviously did not, and that's the sort of thing that seems like it should need a very good justification, which inclines me to believing Musk (because the world of bad justifications is much larger than the world of good ones). And frankly, I'm pretty used to unconvincing, bored, boiler-plate denials from spooks, who often seem to kind of suck at advanced lying.
And generally, the context of Musk's takeover really seems like the sort of thing where Jim Baker in particular ought to have gotten a new waiver about this topic in particular. OTOH, it's not unreasonable to ask why Musk didn't think of this angle beforehand. On the gripping hand, Musk is doing a ton of shit, it's understandable if he drops a ball occasionally.
That's fine but there's a lot of gaps here papered over by assumptions. Do we know that any files were withheld? If files were withheld, do we know it was because of Baker's FBI connection? We don't know the answer to either question and Musk can trivially clear up both, but he hasn't. Don't you find the lack of detail from Musk to be suspicious? His actions do not comport with someone heralding himself as a vanguard for transparency.
Not particularly, he seems to be slow-rolling this whole thing. And my point was that I think Baker needs to do a lot to justify himself even in the event that he did literally nothing wrong, due to the conflict of interest. I would say that Baker could offer some transparency on his end too, if he really had a good reason to insert himself into the vetting anyway, but I guess there is probably a lot of potential problems for him there as a lawyer.
General but relevant question, does confidentiality cover the reasons your client fired you?
Generally yes. RPC 1.6 is what governs here and the only exception to confidentiality that comes close to what you're describe is:
The comments on the rule (#10) seem to imply that the complaint from the client needs to be at least somewhat formalized through a proceeding of some sort. So while the "controversy" language seems a bit permissive, there's also the strong professional incentive to not be known as the lawyer that will sing a song about his client every time he's fired.
I have to deal with this all the time because it's common for unhappy public defense clients to try and get their lawyers fired. Generally the song and dance I have to do is make vague allusions that there has been a "complete breakdown in the attorney-client privilege". In some rare circumstances, judges have asked for more detail, and so to cover my ass I ask them the judge to sign a court order forcing me to disclose confidential information (crucially, I have the right to disobey this order if I wanted to). I then submit a sealed declaration that only the judge will read with a lot more details, but even in those circumstances I try not to get too carried away.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link