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ZorbaTHut  2yr ago (text post)   45527 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of September 5, 2022

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One of the key defining features of being human is that we can form bonds that go beyond simple kinship which allow us to create complex societies, up to and including our current globe-spanning super-civilization. As the meme goes, we actually are built different.

Of course, there will always be struggles and competitions - the only difference is that in a future utopian society they will be who throws the best parties, who can create the most creative and lavish gifts to give away and climbing the status hierarchy by being most well-liked or admired or talk of the town.

the only difference is that in a future utopian society they will be who throws the best parties, who can create the most creative and lavish gifts to give away and climbing the status hierarchy by being most well-liked or admired or talk of the town.

One of the things I've learned from talking with socialists is that to many what you describe is paradise despite it sounding like a hell to me.

Maybe you haven't been to the right parties yet.

parties as a competition and enjoyed in a patrick bateman business card style dominance sense would leave very little left of socializing that I enjoy.

Have you never socialized with other people as a group, for the purpose of socialization and wondering how you can make it better next time? (Not implying that every party/social event needs to be improved every time, or that there is always some obvious way to improve it for next time).

Competing to throwing the 'best' party doesn't have to be treated as a sociopathic game of Risk, nor does partying mean going to a night club and competing to see who can get the most drunk or can score the hottest chick. A party can be as little effort as stargazing with friends while getting drunk or high or neither. Replace partying with hanging out with friends if you want to quibble with the choice of words. The point is that in a utopia what it means to compete can be entirely different and much more pro-social than what it means to compete in other societies.

Also, I would imagine trying too hard to 'win' at socializing, having fun and letting loose (the goal of a party) is the opposite sort of behaviour necessary for a 'good' party in the first place.

Have you never socialized with other people as a group, for the purpose of socialization and wondering how you can make it better next time?

I'm not positive what "for the purpose of socialization" means so I'm going to assume it just means "for fun" correct me if I'm interpreting this wrong. Yes, when something doesn't go well at a party I try to improve that aspect with the next party. I do not think of this as a ~"struggle or competition", I think viewing it that way is a path straight down sociopathy.

Replace partying with hanging out with friends if you want to quibble with the choice of words. The point is that in a utopia what it means to compete can be entirely different and much more pro-social than what it means to compete in other societies.

I don't think framing this as a competition works at all. I think you're trying to combine two things, friendship/kinship and the only status hierarchy that remains when you remove all other meaningful competitions. I don't think kinship survives this merge. Competitions are gamed, when there is only one competition all energy is put into optimizing that competition. I've been to social events that are thinly veiled status competitions, they are soulless affairs but they're still good at raising status if used right but tiling over the social landscape with them would be a true loss.

My basic point is this, replacing myriad discrete status games with one central status game raises the stakes of that game to a maximum height. socialization based hierarchies are popularity contests and the real world example of heightened and globalized popularity contests isn't who throws the best board game night, it's politics. It's the Clintons, Trumps, Stalins and Maos of the world that win. Socialist don't eliminate all hierarchy, they make it so that only one hierarchy matters and it's perhaps the most brutal and illegible hierarchy that exists.

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