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I think we agree on a number of things: this was incompetence and that due legal process will not prevent all incompetence-based errors.
I think where we disagree is that this particular error was incompetence of such degree as to be a violation of due process (all but conceded by the government anyway) and that violations of this kind (ignorance of a duly entered legal order that they had a legal duty to know about) are the kind of things that can be prevented. One doesn't need to think that every error can be prevented to believe that such a glaringly obvious one can be.
I think they are quickly going to learn that this strategy. And the sooner they internalize that if they don't do so, they are going to be restrained from doing anything, the sooner that lesson gets passed up the chain that if their leadership wants anything done, they better do it properly.
No: this was a violation of Garcia’s right, but it was not a due process violation. Whether error is egregious or not is orthogonal to whether it’s a due process violation.
Most of them, certainly. My point is that there is a trade off here between error rate and your effectiveness. The more efforts you take to prevent any and all errors, the harder it will be to actually get the job done. Democrats understand this very well: that’s how they effectively banished almost all of death penalty in US. That’s why I oppose excessive concern for due process, because I know that it’s not principled stance, but rather instrumental, only to achieve a specific nefarious political purpose.
Yes, but even so, the glaringly obvious mistakes will nevertheless occasionally happen, and sometimes there will be little legal remedy available too. I’m willing to consider proposals to make errors less likely, but only if they are paired with proposals to make the whole process faster and more effective. Of course, Democrats won’t entertain deals like that.
I'm not sure how this is so. For one, had he been given any kind of notice and chance to challenge his removal, one imagines he could have raised the issue of his procedurally-valid and as-yet-not-revoked withholding.
This is surely so. That doesn't mean that, as a matter of negative polarization, those that oppose those efforts should be against these arguments in all possible configurations.
One can look at a death penalty case that has received a full trial and multiple appeals and decide that is (more than) enough process. One can also look at someone detained and removed in the middle of the night and conclude that this is not enough process. I'm not an idiot that thinks that if Democrats say the sky is blue, it must instead be green.
Of course they wouldn't. But given that they don't control any branch of the Federal Government, we don't need their assent to anything either.
One could imagine a process that would have prevented the issue, but none such process was due him, and even if there was, as I keep saying, a mistake could have happened after that process was completed. For example, imagine he got a notice he is getting deported to Venezuela, tried to appeal it, failed, and then on the deportation day there is a mix up and he accidentally gets put on a bus that gets people onto a plane to El Salvador.
Sure, but in my opinion, the process is already very excessive. For example, I think that the standard procedure should be that people who never had valid immigration to begin with, should only get to appeal their deportation after already being deported.
Well, I guess I disagree that he isn't due some kind of notice and chance to leave in an orderly fashion.
But even then, if a mistake happens after some kind of process, even a minimal one, then you can point to the process and at least say that an attempt was made. It's no argument to say that because we can't prevent every mistake, we shouldn't try to prevent any mistake.
Yes, that might happen. So what? Again, the fact that you can't prevent every mistake doesn't mean we must be totally indifferent to every mistake imaginable.
Is it excessive? Or did the 2019 adjudication simply come to the wrong conclusion?
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