This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
A crucial element of this that you're missing is that almost everybody, liberals included, wants illegal criminal gang members deported.
The reason why there's upset in this case is because there's supposed to be a robust and transparent process that validates whether or not they really are illegal aliens and criminal gang members. Such a process is so important that it's enshrined in the 5th and 6th amendments to the constitution.
They also want the Courts and Congress to prove that they're a check on the President's power. The President should only have as much power as the constitution says he should have. He should not be allowed to validate the 5th and 6th amendments by edict.
That is the Schelling Fence. The 5th and 6ths Amendments are the Schelling Fence!
They coerced the sitting president to apologize for referring to a murderer as "illegal." It's not at all clear they want anyone, no matter how violent, deported, and they certainly don't want them called illegal.
More options
Context Copy link
Most sanctuary city or state policies I am aware of do not have any meaningful exceptions for criminal gang members as part of the nullification / sanctuary theories. As such, I am not convinced this claim should be taken as a basis of mutual understanding, or even shared values.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link