(I was going to wait till Wellness Wednesday to post this as a comment, but the thread's blurb says it's not meant to be a containment and that advice requests can be posted as threads so here we are)
In dating, if you're ghosted, do you a) always move on stoically, b) always give it one more shot, or c) go with a mix of the two depending on circumstances?
After first or second dates, if I text a woman to set up another date and she doesn't reply, I just leave it alone. I sometimes wonder if there is an infinitesimal probability that maybe somehow my text got lost in the pipes, but if she wanted to see me again, she could always text me even if she thought I never contacted her. Sometimes the ghosting can be perplexing, like she'd already messaged me first after the date saying how she had a great time, and then after I respond asking to meet again, I don't hear back. But that's just dating or life in general--many or most people are flaky and undependable. It reminds me of how when I was procuring enterprise software for work that many sales reps don't even reply to requests for a quote. Speaking of sales, I remember reading a negotiation book whereby if you're the one selling, an effective trick to jumpstart wavering/cold leads is to ask them "have you given up on this project". Manipulative, sure, but all is fair in sales, love, and war.
But I occasionally see/hear stories of how some guy was super persistent despite being turned down and would eventually go on to win over the girl. I'm not talking about Hallmark movies from 20 years ago, but wedding announcements in the New York Times from like two weeks ago. But if we do talk about Hallmark, women sure seem to love romance stories featuring love interests who almost always turn down the protagonist the first time around. Reddit loves upvoting stories of how a couple ended up married despite the girl initially swiping left because of some silly reason like she didn't like his hat, but then they somehow met and fell in love. Part of this is probably because Reddit is disproportionately young and single and so wants to believe in second chances, but part of it is we celebrate persistence culturally: in work interviews, a candidate whom the hiring manager is mostly indifferent to but goes above and beyond to change their mind probably gets the job. I've met girls who tell me that guys who don't pursue them more energetically despite not receiving encouraging signals show that they aren't serious, and so disqualify themselves. And a recent ex actually turned me down when I asked her out, but then we hung out as friends a couple of times and she ended up saying yes when I asked a second time.
Now, to be clear, for most of these non-follow-ups I've been subject to, I didn't really think any of them was "the one", or else I likely would have given it another shot. Still, I enjoyed their company and it would have been fun to go out again. And I'd certainly prefer to be the one who decides to "let her go" rather than having her make the decision for me.
So sometimes I look back and wonder if I should have followed up one more time. Maybe go with something simple like "Hey--I really enjoyed meeting you and would love to see you again, but understand if you don't feel the same spark. I wish you the best!". It sounds cheesy and a bit needy, but costs nothing, barring maybe making the girl feel a bit uncomfortable for not taking a super obvious hint. Different women also have different preferences, whereby some will surely respond to "follow ups" more positively than others. And I'm not convinced that ghosting is some kind of self-unselecting filter for women who lack maturity, since there are enough men who take rejections very poorly that it does seem safer to just not reply as a rule of thumb.
So what do you do? Do you have a system for deciding if and when to follow up after not hearing back?
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Notes -
I don't know that I've ever had success messaging a woman who ghosted me, though sometimes I've gotten an explanation or an excuse out of it ("my boyfriend/father/husband saw the messages" being a classic, variable depending on age).
But on the other hand, I've often wished that girls I ghosted would reach out to me. Often I stopped replying for a petty or momentary reason, and a week or a month later I'm feeling silly about it and I want to see her again but I'm too embarrassed to reach out because I have no good explanation for the initial ghosting. After a week it's so awkward I don't know how to get past it, so I don't message even though I want to talk to them. When girls have messaged me after I ghosted them, they have a decent success rate.
But on another finger on that other hand, success above was another rendezvous and a few fun nights, not falling in love forever. So if you're looking for the latter, I have no evidence it will work out.
But another twist in the tale: I'm a romantic, the upside of finding a really good partner is so high that even a small chance you'll find that is worth a low percentage shot.
This sounds like a trivial problem to fix and absolutely not at all a reason to project such (IMO neurotic) expectations onto other people.
I'm a little unclear as to what you mean.
If you're saying I was being a total shitheel you're correct.
If you're saying that because i was being a shitheel that data should be rejected... Well I don't see a lot of counter narratives in here from other users about why they ghosted people, so I think my experience stands as the best example we have.
Why do you ghost people, when you have ghosted them?
My argument is that it is not a valid reason because the premise invalidates the conclusion. If you have to resort to assuming somebody is either incredibly immature or incredibly manipulative in order to justify why you should write to them, then I don't see a compelling basis for a relationship either way, thus sort of invalidating the conclusion.
On a tangent, I think applying this line of thinking to women would amount to dangerous wishful thinking more often than not. So merely entertaining it as a possibility is a sort of memetic hazard on its own.
Because they are wholly uninteresting to talk to, unattractive, or I just otherwise don't think they're worth my time. It's the most clear "I'm not interested, but I'm also too busy to reject you" message you can send.
Ghosting also leaves juuust enough of a crack in the rejection that you can go back on it in future if necessary, too. Compared to actually rejecting somebody.
This is true, but rest assured, if I simply stop responding to somebody it's more likely than not that I've already forgotten about them.
After about 50 first dates this year, and a few what I'd consider to be 'soft ghosts' where social media was exchanged after date 1, maybe a message or two, but the conversation fizzled naturally/a second date wasn't formally asked for...
Then again I don't really know what the standard people have for 'ghosting' is. If we exchange 'It was lovely to meet you, have a good day!' texts after a date and then I just don't pursue from there I don't feel it's a ghost as I haven't really ignored an advance... but gut feeling is that the women may feel somehow slighted in some cases.
Weird, I don't even call it ghosting if you haven't made love, and I've almost never made love with anyone only once. To me ghosting has to involve a strong expectation of continued communication, which doesn't exist after one inconclusive date.
I'd personally consider it ghosting if, after meeting in person, somebody doesn't respond to an invitation/clear attempt to reach out and start a conversation.
I just think with Girl Logic sometimes there's a certain unspoken 'By responding to his polite after-date communication I've made it clear that he is permitted to continue chasing'
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Yeah, ghosting is a way of saying "I might have a use for you later. Maybe not one you love, but ..."
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