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PaperclipPerfector  8d ago (text post)   31629 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of April 7, 2025

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With all this being said, if I do encounter something extraordinary* that seems to be the direct result of prayer I will certainly consider reporting it to the Motte.

Please also report extraordinary events that did not seem to be the direct result of prayers.

Because that's the thing about miracles, even if I watched you regrow a limb before my own eyes and you told me God personally spoke to you and told you it was because you prayed for it, it would move my needle on spontaneous limb regrowth a lot, but not so much on God. I've heard of many, many people praying and receiving fuck all.

Right! If you're really determined not to believe, there's really no evidence that will change your mind.

Except perhaps a personal encounter (which is what often moves the needle on people's belief, be it UFOs, or religion, or what have you).

And of course those personal encounters are considered the least reliable form of proof. So the wheel turns!

I do not think I am determined not to believe. I think there is simply more evidence and more reliable evidence, on the level of "gravity can kill you", in favor of a world that has no God.

I do think I am somewhat determined to not be faithful, even (especially?) if I was convinced by some arrangement of miracles that (a) God existed.

Just setting aside a lot of potential objections, it seems to me that what you describe is at best evidence against a God that shares your personal values.

How so? It seems to work pretty well against a wide variety of Gods that purportedly intervene in notable and noticeable ways into human life.

Perhaps I misunderstood you – "gravity can kill you" strikes me as a moral objection or argument, not one based in material evidence.

Strange to assume that I'd say "gravity can kill you" implying that I approve of it, but no, I meant that it is capable of killing you.

I actually assumed you disapproved of it – but yes I don't see how gravity's being able to kill you really has any evidentiary value.

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