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naraburns  nihil supernum  2yr ago (text post)   Edited 2yr ago   34778 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of November 14, 2022

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I don't see the connection with individualism/collectivism.

Prior to the Revolution, France recognized three estates. Post revolution, it recognized one, The People, The Public, and was ruled by dictators wielding power in the public's name. When a "committee of public safety" dictates the correct way to for all citizens to think and act, and begins jailing or executing anyone who steps out of line, is this not collectivism, in the "opposite of individualism" sense?

He did get it... But I'm not here to judge the common man's taste for war and occasionally chopping off heads, just pointing out that he was far more powerful than he had been.

Did he get it in the Soviet Union as well? If not, how was the Soviet Revolution materially different from the French Revolution? It seems obvious that by your argument, the average Russian was more powerful under the USSR, and quite possibly richer as well. Is this the claim?

Charitably considered, those beliefs are trivially true.

How? Would you mind elaborating, particularly on what you see as a charitable interpretation of the Enlightenment's claims would be?

Prior to the Revolution, France recognized three estates. Post revolution, it recognized one, The People, The Public, and was ruled by dictators wielding power in the public's name. When a "committee of public safety" dictates the correct way to for all citizens to think and act, and begins jailing or executing anyone who steps out of line, is this not collectivism, in the "opposite of individualism" sense?

Was the French revolution individualist or collectivist? As the old Soviet joke says: "it depends on who you are".

For example, if you were worker, you had to be strict individualist, you had to stand proudly alone, negotiating with your fellow individual (who just happened to own factory, mine or estate while you were penniless loser) as one equal citizen with another.

Or else.

Did he get it in the Soviet Union as well? If not, how was the Soviet Revolution materially different from the French Revolution?

As different as sun and moon.

If we are talking about material interests, Russian revolution was about collectivization of land, factories and all means of production.

French revolution was about distribution of means of production (mostly land at the time) to trustworthy private owners.

If you want to compare it to something from modern time, it was more like post-1991 great capitalist revolution (with more colorful pageantry).

(translation courtesy to Google, so you do not have click the button yourself)

Financial opportunities offered by the sales of national property, called "enemy property"

For essentially political reasons, the Revolution pronounced the seizure of the goods dependent on social bodies which are, a priori , at least foreign, if not hostile, in order to weaken them, economically and socially.

...

When we examine the files, we quickly realize that the biggest deals have been done for the benefit of personalities belonging to or protected by political power, that is to say, the new elites.

Sometimes they were notaries and merchants, buying goods and immediately reselling them to peasants.

All the goods, with a cumulative value exceeding six billion, were sold in year III , but at a loss and in considerable proportions.

For some, these operations carried out on national property were extremely lucrative and explain, even today, the origin of certain great French fortunes.

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