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Notes -
"This is not any 'immunity' to economic analysis"
Ah yes, a parenthetical in the middle of a paragraph that is mostly parentheticals (some nested!) is your central point. Right then.
Let me see if I can summarize your four paragraph 'basic logic'.
Child porn is illegal. Fake child porn isn't.
Economic reasoning can be applied to child porn and fake child porn. They are both goods and are to some degree considered substitutes, so the economic reasoning of substitute goods applies.
Restating that the economic reasoning of substitute goods applies.
Suddenly, economic reasoning of substitute goods doesn't apply, because... parentheticals. Um, I guess economic reasoning of substitute goods doesn't apply, because there is a public policy regarding these goods?
Is that about right?
I apologize if the structure of my communication is too complex for you. Like most people, I inevitably write in a manner that is best understood by people mostly as capable as myself in regards to parsing complexity.
Yes, naive basic econ reasoning from your high school classes does not automatically apply when government policy distorts the natural incentives applicable mostly only in simple hypothetical scenarios about competing lemonade stands or whatever. That's... kind of why governments make policy at all. I'm glad you've finally graduated to the absolute simplest understanding of the effect of policy on the economy.
Ok, so all of the academic economics work I've seen on other goods that have government policies which distort natural incentives... is wrong?
Probably not. But they also probably actually analyzed the effects of those policies instead of just trying to naively apply basic reasoning as if they weren't there.
Let me try to get at your central point then: You assert that my claim that current policy prevents producers of actual CP from just lowering their "costs" (which again aren't in monetary terms but rather hassle, legal risk, etc.) like would happen in a normal substitute goods situation means that I'm claiming that economics doesn't apply to CP production.
Fine, but if you feel so strongly that I'm wrong, then defend the antithesis. Let's imagine thus that we're now in a classic substitute goods situation and CP producers are in fact looking to lower "costs" (again, not monetary).
What do they do then? Lobby Congress to repeal the ban on their product? Oh wait, they'd get arrested. Does "ChildPornographer69" message Congressman Smith anonymously on Telegram then and donate to him with Monero in exchange for his promise to introduce a bill to abolish Title 18, Chapter 110 of the USC? Does Smith register it as a campaign contribution?
Do they launch satellites like Starlink to try to create their own childpornternet that anyone can easily access, airdropping untraceable quantum communication routers on to their doorsteps?
What's the plan approved by academic economists here? You must know since you insist so strongly that an inability to unilaterally reduce these costs cannot be economically so.
Keep in mind that this is an "industry" that was never even remotely big in the first place when legal (as it was already pretty controversial) and was basically completely destroyed by regulations against it (nearly 50 years ago, before most involved in it now were even born) amplifying the piracy that's also significantly impacted its parent industry into not just a convenience but also a crucial legal protection for its products' consumers, thereby making it nearly universal (to the point where at any given moment the whole of this "industry" is maybe 2-3 collections of guys in their basements, maybe a few independent teen girls, selling cell phone cam videos for Monero to maybe 12 customers a piece (everyone else will just pirate it once it's leaked) for almost certainly far less than minimum wage). They have essentially no money to use to do whatever you think it is they might do.
If me saying that there is no way for them reasonably lower costs as would happen in a classical situation absent incentive-distorting policy is, according to you, economic denialism, then... how do they lower costs? Tell me exactly what happens since you're the economics expert. Keep in mind though that there are two difficult constraints upon your answer:
Given that this situation has been in place for decades, anything that you claim that they would do in response should be stuff they've already been doing for years. There's decades of retroactive information so you can't just make a vague prediction and claim you'll be proven correct later.
You're talking to a rare person who actually has first hand knowledge of whether you're right about the above or not.
So go on. The "immunity to economics" has been rescinded. You obviously understand incentives, policy, and its effect on the former better than me, so let's go:
Imagine you're now a hypothetical CP producer. Since as we all know substitute goods situations inherently create at least an incentive/tendency for the more expensive product to lower its "cost"/"price" (otherwise that's economic denialism, whether those costs are imposed by policy or not), and you've said many times that my suggestion that this tendency would be essentially impossible to realize in this particular situation is also economic denialism, then you're of course ignoring my vastly economically ignorant stupidity and lowering costs.
What'll it be then? How do you get it done, since policy doesn't matter?
I did not make a claim/ask a question about producer costs. I asked about the price.
Nor did I. If you'll keep up, it's clearly explained that "costs" in that context refers to costs to the consumer (which I'm pretty sure you've well understood for the entire rest of our conversation, just not now that you're about to be pinned down into an actual assertion), that is "price" (which is misleading though because actual prices in terms of currency amounts aren't really involved here).
So go on. With that clarified, answer the question. How do you lower the ""price"/"cost" to the consumer of your product being illegal, heavily taboo, and difficult to access (mostly because of the previous)? You told me it was economic denialism to insist that was incredibly, vastly unlikely to be possible (and in any case not equivalent to some normal hypothetical scenario from an econ 101 textbook), so go ahead. Tell me how it happens.
Depends on what the price structure actually looks like to consumers. There are different consumers here, of course. Some "pay" by producing their own fresh content. Others pay via literal cryptocurrency. Others pay by running the risk of downloading malware. Others pay in time by jumping through hoops, either in digital land or in physical land. Others pay by the level of risk involved of possible prosecution. Others pay by providing reputation.
There are likely others, but I am kinda busy today. in any event, each of these things can be reduced.
Okay then I will await your proper response on how all of the costs can be reduced without altering the incentive structure created by policy here (or how child pornographers can in your estimation alter policy). Presumably then you will explain why it hasn't happened yet either despite it being so economically inevitable.
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Where exactly is it "clearly explained that "costs" in that context refers to costs to the consumer"?
You need to take a reality pill about your own quality of communication. I'll come back and make another comment about the substance at my leisure (maybe faster if I see that you've taken a realistic reassessment of what's gone down here and changed your tone a bit).
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