site banner
naraburns  nihil supernum  2yr ago (text post)   Edited 2yr ago   34791 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of November 14, 2022

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

12
Top Bottom Old Controversial Comments
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

Is there a serious value add for male sex toys? there's no anatomical analogy to a Hitachi, but a hand can curl around a dick just fine. No batteries, no plug, and I'm carrying it around anyway. The hell I need a toy for?

Find a market near you that sells large aloe vera leaves. Cut a section near the base and slice the flesh through the middle. The soft texture of the flesh and natural skin-nourishing gel lubricant are what I would consider a serious value-add. I would never use a plastic "toy" or oil-based or synthetic lube, it would probably cause a reaction as my skin is kind of sensitive.

Is there a serious value add for male sex toys?

Yes. The general problem with them is that you need to lubricate them before use and actually have to get out of bed to clean them (not an extra step if you do this anyway, but a rag won't do the job like it normally does).

but a hand can curl around a dick just fine.

Sure, but the silicone sleeves have 100% coverage and consistent pressure around the enclosed cylinder. Your hand can't do either of those things, especially if you're only focused on one part at a time; it is quite a bit better sensation-wise. It also prevents you from clamping down too hard (this may or may not be a problem for you). But it does ultimately add inconvenience where there wasn't before.

Maybe it's a circumcision thing too, if you're uncut you require no lube and can get real far focusing pressure on the frenulum.

if you're uncut you require no lube

The silicone used with these toys exhibits enough friction that it doesn't matter.

If you don't lubricate it, it is difficult to impossible to insert against, which just adds more cleanup and complication to what should in theory be a perfectly simple process.

Right but I'm under the impression that uncut folks are already using lube anyway so the jump to toys might not be as much of a pain?

Men don't regularly have these conversations among themselves. I wonder if female masturbation tradecraft is more developed because women actually talk about it whereas men for the most part figure it out like any primate can and go to town for life.

I'm under the impression that uncut folks are already using lube anyway so the jump to toys might not be as much of a pain?

If anything, it'd be the cut folks using lubricant, since they're missing the piece that automatically provides it.

I am not (and don't need it), so needing to use it is inconvenient even though the experience on offer from a toy is strictly better than simple hand motion.

Might be a difference specific to the US, since that's the place with the highest raw (heh) number of circumcisions; but then again I believe people from the US are less likely to purchase these toys for other reasons (their society is far more masculine-leaning than any of their closest competitors), so it might be a wash.

I inverted that, I meant cut folks.

If you're trying to say that there's no value to male sex toys, but there is value to female toys, then I don't follow. Can a woman not stick her fingers inside of her vagina, or rub her clit using only her hands?

I'm saying is there enough value to justify the logistical tail? A Hitachi literally plugs into the wall but it's worth it. Is there anything with that kind of value add for penis-focused guys? (I'm sure there are tons of excellent things to put in your asshole if that's your jam.)

Well, I'm no expert, but if I wanted to steelman the position that male sex toys are worth it, I'd say that the biggest difference between vaginal sex and manual masturbation is that vaginal sex is very wet. So maybe the biggest value-add is in something that lubricates.

For that matter, the only thing I ever did which was similar to buying a male sex toy was when I once bought some masturbation cream. It was advertised as that it was supposed to make your hand feel just like a vagina when the cream heats up. But I wasn't impressed, it wasn't worth it, didn't actually feel at all like vaginal sex, and had annoying cleanup.

What is this place?

This website is a place for people who want to move past shady thinking and test their ideas in a court of people who don't all share the same biases. Our goal is to optimize for light, not heat; this is a group effort, and all commentators are asked to do their part.

The weekly Culture War threads host the most controversial topics and are the most visible aspect of The Motte. However, many other topics are appropriate here. We encourage people to post anything related to science, politics, or philosophy; if in doubt, post!

Check out The Vault for an archive of old quality posts. You are encouraged to crosspost these elsewhere.


Why are you called The Motte?

A motte is a stone keep on a raised earthwork common in early medieval fortifications. More pertinently, it's an element in a rhetorical move called a "Motte-and-Bailey", originally identified by philosopher Nicholas Shackel. It describes the tendency in discourse for people to move from a controversial but high value claim to a defensible but less exciting one upon any resistance to the former. He likens this to the medieval fortification, where a desirable land (the bailey) is abandoned when in danger for the more easily defended motte. In Shackel's words, "The Motte represents the defensible but undesired propositions to which one retreats when hard pressed."

On The Motte, always attempt to remain inside your defensible territory, even if you are not being pressed.


New post guidelines

If you're posting something that isn't related to the culture war, we encourage you to post a thread for it. A submission statement is highly appreciated, but isn't necessary for text posts or links to largely-text posts such as blogs or news articles; if we're unsure of the value of your post, we might remove it until you add a submission statement. A submission statement is required for non-text sources (videos, podcasts, images).

Culture war posts go in the culture war thread; all links must either include a submission statement or significant commentary. Bare links without those will be removed.

If in doubt, please post it!


Rules


Recommended Posts And Communities

Recommended Realtime Chats