This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
The USA PATRIOT Act was passed and implemented with the ostensible goal of combatting a group most of us would consider "scoundrels" by any reasonable definition: terrorists, especially Islamist extremists. Almost immediately, it was used as a tool for oppressing any group the federal government didn't like the look of, such as people operating Stargate SG-1 fan websites, people suspected of having committed non-terrorist crimes (without being formally indicted or being served a search warrant), legal permanent residents who the Attorney General suspects may cause a terrorist act and so on.
There are people that most reasonable people would consider scoundrels (murderers, rapists, drug dealers). The government is afforded various powers to combat these scoundrels. But there will always be a natural temptation for the government to abuse this privilege by using it against people the government doesn't like, but that no reasonable person would consider scoundrels (anti-war activists, environmentalists, homosexuals, directors of low-budget horror films and so on).
An ounce of prevention is better than a pound of cure. Better that ten guilty men escape than one innocent man hang.
Not necessarily. To use my earlier example of the USA PATRIOT Act, I don't think anything "catastrophic" has happened as a result of that piece of legislation - it hasn't led to a genocide, or destabilised the US, or anything of that magnitude. But I think it's fair to say that numerous people have had their civil liberties unfairly infringed upon - or indeed, their lives ruined - as a result of this legislation and how it was (ab)used, and I think that's bad.
More options
Context Copy link