This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Deportees from countries that always accept returnees (ie developed countries) are pretty much always returned to them. If an Irish person overstays a visa and gets deported they are going home to Ireland on a commercial flight in most cases.
The issue is firstly with countries that don’t accept returnees because they don’t care or don’t want those people back, secondly with migrants who throw away all identity documents and don’t clarify or lie about where they’re from and thirdly - especially in Europe - with countries that the courts block deportation to.
That’s why third countries are so important, because they remove the incentive to hold up the deportation process because you’re not spending it in the country you’re trying to move to, but in a poor third country.
You wrote this 3 days ago, and already my feed has various stories of first-worlders (Canadians, Germans) spending far longer than one might imagine reasonable in ICE detention rather than taking a commercial flight.
More options
Context Copy link
Absolutely. I was not trying to address any of these three cases.
My limited claim here was that if an individual who is not convicted of a violent act is told to remove, they should get three days to remove themselves to a country of their choice. In all other cases cited, or once that three days is up, do whatever.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link