This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
I find it amusing that you and I both agree that the United States should do something extravagantly impressive and historically novel, but we disagree so strongly on the particulars of what that thing should be. I understand your fondness for empire and for your desire to be a citizen of an imperial core.
However, I think there’s an important dissimilarity between the British Empire of old and what you’re proposing for the American Global Empire: namely, that the British Empire was bringing the genteel Anglo-European culture to places which were genuinely backward and benighted, and whose populace and their posterity stood to gain immeasurably from being annexed by the British.
When you lament America losing its grip on Europe, though, or you long for the American annexation of Canada, you’re talking about the conquest and vassalization of civilizations which are, at worst, at the same level of civilizational development as America. I understand that America is richer than the U.K. and Canada, and perhaps you think that alone is evidence enough of American superiority that it justifies geopolitical domination of those countries. In terms of American cultural output, I don’t think what America is putting out into the world is generally impressive or indicative of a culture that the rest of the world ought to want to emulate or be absorbed into. Even leaving aside our repellently boorish president — a man about whose personal qualities you and I seem to be in resounding agreement — the culture we’re exporting to the world right now is, largely, vulgar and soulless trash: Marvel movies, The Fast & The Furious, race-swapped remakes of blockbusters from the 80’s, and hip-hop culture. These are not the artifacts of a civilization which deserves to rule the world and lord over other white first-worlders.
Like, I’m not some blanket Europhile who thinks all things European are sophisticated and all things American are crude. But it’s tough to see Donald Trump of all people talking down to valuable allies who are ailing — due in part, yes, to the fecklessness of their leaders, a state of affairs which can be reversed, and without Trump’s interference. If anything he’s making it much less likely that these countries will want to be more culturally and politically integrated with America. He’s highlighting differences and exacerbating the instinctive resistance to vassalization which the people of these countries still feel viscerally. I don’t want America to be like imperious Britain imposing the Raj on the benighted Indians; I want countries to be lining up to voluntarily integrate into it, because the example it sets is so undeniably great and impressive that they can’t fail to recognize the better deal that awaits them in America’s embrace. Trump’s shambolic bullying and lowbrow populism are the last things I would expect the leader of such a country to lead with in its outreaches to the rest of the world. If America does eventually annex Canada it will be a welcome reconciliation — perhaps by an American president married to a Canadian woman and with deep cultural ties to both countries, highlighting our nations’ shared past and shared future. It won’t be by idiot Donald Trump braying incoherently about fentanyl.
More options
Context Copy link