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PaperclipPerfector  9d ago (text post)   1750 thread views

Friday Fun Thread for February 28, 2025

Be advised: this thread is not for serious in-depth discussion of weighty topics (we have a link for that), this thread is not for anything Culture War related. This thread is for Fun. You got jokes? Share 'em. You got silly questions? Ask 'em.

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I have a silly rant that's 10 years out of date...

You know how, in Game of Thrones, everyone is so scared of the Dothraki? Why? The Dothraki have no ships, no armor, no siege weapons, no ranged weapons except small bows, no heavy infantry... nothing. They can't stay organized, and they're economy consists entirely of horses. They live only in the dry empty plains where noone else wants to live. When they tried to attack one of the cities, they got wrecked by just a small group of Unsullied. They're basically just bandits who sprung up after the collapse of the Valyrians. Posers.

On the hand there's Braavos. Now there's something to be scared of! Supposedly just a city, but they were strong enough to defy the Valyrians at the peak of their power. They've got a bank with more money than all the seven kingdoms of Westeros, and enough manpower to send mercenaries that will easily (supposedly) overpower all of the seven kingdoms' armies. They cannot be attacked, because their island is protected by an invincible fleet of high technology. Man-for-man, they're also the best fighters, with Arya's Braavos"dancing teacher" easily taking down a large group of attackers with just a wooden sword. And their economy is so advanced that, unlike apparently everyone else in the world, they eschew slavery and won't touch it no matter how profitable it is.

Then of course there's the faceless men. This crazy magical death-cult who can kill anyone, anywhere. The only catch is that the fee is so high that noone in Westeros can afford it. But that won't stop the Braavosi, because they're so rich! Don't you dare get on the wrong side of a Braavosi, they have at least 5 different ways they can kill you.

In the end, the icewalkers were just stupid zombies, and the dragons weren't so tough- you can just shoot them down with a big ranged weapon. Even the Iron Islanders with their shitty economy of "we do not sew" managed to figure it out. The Braavosi definitely would have. But how the hell do you stop the Braavosi? The rest of the world should be working together, building a big coalition against them, much more afraid of them than some stupid slow zombies from beyond the wall.

Dothraki are feared for the same reason that similar nomads wrecked Eurasia from the taming of horses up to 19th century. Mounted warriors are very powerful both with bow and melee weapons and in nomadic tribal social structure almost every man can take on that role if needed.

Braavos is clearly modeled on Italian merchant republics, specifically Venice and to a lesser extent Genoa. I would recommend Roger Crowley's "City of Fortune: How Venice Won and Lost a Naval Empire" to see many problems that rich navally dominant city with mercenary military can have in maintaining its dominance. In short enemies can build fleet too, you are reliant on your trade partners and it's not always easy to translate your wealth into military power.

The Mongols did have armor, siege weapons and ranged weapons though.

Dothraki are feared for the same reason that similar nomads wrecked Eurasia from the taming of horses up to 19th century.

You mean up to the 14th century? Tamerlane was the last successful nomadic conqueror.

Yeah that was typo, but I meant to write 18th century mostly relating to Dzungars and some other lesser scale nomadic activity. I think while Tamerlane truly was the last one to really "wreck" Eurasia singlehandedly, nomads as a whole still did enormous damage all around for a long time afterwards. Crimean khanate for example was still at large and commencing massive raids for much of 18th century.

Well sure, I do get that Dothraki are based on the Mongols while Braavos is based on Venice. But the way its portrayed in the books and especially the show is... not great. ACOUP has a whole series about the Dothraki: https://acoup.blog/2020/12/04/collections-that-dothraki-horde-part-i-barbarian-couture/ saying that "The complex patterns of a war-shirt becomes a simple vest (which then becomes a collection of crude leather belly-straps that have more in common with bondage gear than with clothing." I can't recall a single scene from the shows of them using a bow. They certainly never use gunpowder or siege engines like the mongols did. mostly they use whips which just... LOL.

Venice seems cool but, like you said they were limited in their power. Braavos seems to have unlimited weath and mercenary manpower in addition to technology and actual magic.

90% sure they use bows in the loot train attack

You're right, they do use bows occasionally. But so what, everyone else has bows too.

Yeah obviously they are flanderized version of the real life cultures, but I don't think that authentic clothing matters that much. They do commonly use bows in the books. And while ACOUP has pedantic in its name it's still too nitpicky, not to mention ideologically captured to be a good source of critique. Like can you imagine there is no description of Dothraki art and music, that means that Martin is racist and/or ignorant, not that it just isn't very interesting thing to focus on.

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