This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Sure, I'd be in favor of having these students served, I'm just skeptical of doing so on the basis of the color of their skin. Surely, such a state would imply that there are also white, Asian, and Jewish students who would have better academic outcomes than their test scores would imply, and I see no reason to exclude them from your outreach measures... but, if it is proven beyond reasonable doubt that only people from particular groups are affected, and there's no colorblind way of helping them, than sure I supposed I'd have to accept the only remaining solution.
It's not beyond the realm of physical possibility, if that's what you're asking. But tell me, how inclined would you be to entertain this argument if we were discussing an instance of explicitly pro-white discrimination, and this is how I was trying to explain it away?
Well, credit it where it's due. I have some amount of antipathy towards these gentlemen (not including you, of course), so I didn't keep up with their writing. That said, I'm pretty sure it still counts as "scant few".
I'm pretty sure you're wrong on both counts. First, for the longest time I was being told "it's just a couple crazy kids on college campuses, they'll grow out of it when they go into the real world", indicating that it's about absolute powerlessness, not relative. Secondly, if anything you got the relative power reversed! Right-wing racists are pretty much marginalized, left-wing racists are building race-segregated dormitories on campuses. Progressives have already gone far beyond what the most sophisticated 4chan chuds barely dare to dream of.
Would you agree that a statement like "if you were upset about what was happening in humanities departments, you didn't really have any option except getting in bed with the creationists and Obama-birther conspiracy theorists" is not the best way of expressing that?
More options
Context Copy link