site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of February 24, 2025

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

4
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

To me this sounds like the sort of rationalization baseless promises societies employ to keep people compliant after they realize that death doesn't scare them anymore.

Even from within an entirely materialistic frame, even stripped entirely of any reference to specific religions, "the wages of sin is death, but righteousness preserves and sustains life perpetually" seems to me not only evident, but unavoidable.

Have you ever had a close personal relationship with an addict, or with someone suffering from serious trauma? An abuse or rape victim, for example? Have you observed the consequences of serious cruelty or selfishness in detail over time? Do you have personal experience of despair?

it is possible to both observe and to experience the destruction of the self from an entirely materialist frame. Likewise, it is possible to observe life that transcends individual mortality: there are vital parts of me that did not come from me, but which live on as an extension of my ancestors, physical and memetic, and which I hope will live on long after I am gone in both my children and in those whose lives I influence.

Against this, it seems to me that you are offering warmed-over 90s-era tits-and-beer Liberal Atheism: people just need to be free to follow their bliss, and anyone saying otherwise is just an uptight square. There's a reason that meme has largely died out, even among Atheists, in favor of increasing recognition of some sort of moral frame with enforcement mechanisms for violations, and that reason might be encapsulated in the observation that Bill Clinton, the avatar-champion of tits-and-beer liberalism, was in fact a rapist.

We tried "follow your bliss". It did not lead to Bliss, but to misery and wretchedness. Tits-and-beer Liberal Atheism carried the field when it was novel and when no one knew for sure what the consequences would be. Now we see the consequences.

People are largely horrible. The pressure keeps them from being as horrible. Remove the pressure and people become more horrible and more people become horrible.

As a social / civilizational technology it's produced better outcomes for those that have used it.

As a social / civilizational technology it's produced better outcomes for those that have used it.

The quality of its outcomes is now secondary to the survival of the egregore. How would the indoctrinated recognize that there is a better way once there is, if it slanders and suppresses its competitors?

Competing egregores slander and compete with each other.

Looking at the outcomes of sexual degeneracy, idolatry, and multiculturalism for many choosing traditional Christianity is better than culture of current year, as it was better than acient paganism.

I'd expect turning away from sin to produce better outcomes, I wouldn't expect it to be popular amongst the unrepentant .