This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
There are lots of ways to re-invent yourself. Most of those ways don't sterilise you, don't frequently render you permanently unattractive, don't have side-effects lists including suicide (yes, suicide; tampering with sex hormones can do that, which is why we try to avoid doing it unless necessary), and/or don't leave you dependent on pharmaceuticals for the rest of your life. Admittedly, there are quite a few that can do one of those (tattoos, joining a cult, wild orgies without protection), but not many that do all four.
I think it's a massive reach to take "real outcomes are maybe a smidgen better than refusing transition i.e. utterly awful" and then assume that if we sent the transphobes to the corn field it'd be actively good. Transition belongs in the "cost" column, not the "benefit" column.
Well, I'm not necessarily assuming medical transition here. I agree the medical dependency and side-effects should be weighed very carefully.
Either way, I think a poll would support my claim. I think if we polled trans people who live in very trans-friendly communities, and detransitioners/people who considered transition but decided against it, about their self-reported level of happiness, life satisfaction, sense of fulfillment, whatever - the trans people would as a matter of fact come out ahead. Do you predict otherwise, or do you simply write them off as too biased to report their own happiness level accurately?
(Which, to be clear, I wouldn't consider crazy. It's not the vibe I get from the trans people I know personally - most seemed massively happier and more at peace with themselves after transitioning than they had ever been, not just before they transitioned, but before they themselves decided/discovered they were trans. But I can see why you would think that.)
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link