This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
There is a categorical difference between an employer requesting you put in ear phones or get a health check up (both of which you can refuse) and agreeing upon incubating a human inside of you for nine months in order to receive payment. If you're saying "No, it's just a difference in degree" then we have an intractable disagreement.
Regarding job quality and relative value, my response was when you asserted "we all pay an emotional toll" - which I think is incorrect. Some people do, absolutely. All of us do not.
I can't quite follow your thread on McDonalds PhDs etc. It seems to me your argument is roughly "find the best mix of compensation / perceived labor / emotional stress" and go from there. Valid enough, but I'd argue there are jobs that may in fact be pay well, be low in labor requirements, and have limited emotional stress that you shouldn't take - drug dealer, pornstar etc. (although, I'd also argue that those "jobs" specifically have high emotional stress - those that do not feel emotional stress in those "jobs" are perhaps demonstrating dissociative or anti-social mental states)
I mean, outside of obvious coercion and indentured servitude, the surrogates can say no. I'm perfectly fine with coercion being illegal, I just don't think the usual argument that the difference in wealthy is necessarily coercive is worth a damn. I don't have a womb, but for the typical sum quoted, I would say I'd at least be interested.
Let's say you have a physically active job, and you've got clapped out knees. When you protest at being assigned field work, I see no reason why the employer can't ask you to get surgery to fix your knees, if a desk job is not a mutually acceptable option. You have the right to refuse, and find another job. That is, technically, something being put inside you for the purposes of work. At any rate, I don't see the qualitative difference between something in or outside you, as long as you agree to it.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link