This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
If anything, Europe under Christendom was uniquely religiously intolerant compared to most other peer civilizations, including in much of South Asia and even for most of Islamic history. Jews were very regularly pogromed (hence the 109 or whatever number it is me) and Catholics and Protestants fought brutal, hugely consequential religious wars over what often seem to outsiders to be relatively minor theological disagreements. In the Islamic Middle East countless tiny religious sects that were neither Islamic nor Christian survived through to the 20th century, and in South Asia there were also periods of relatively broad religious tolerance for Christians, Hindus, Buddhists and so on.
I think there’s every chance it would have survived into modernity as the Copts, Zoroastrians, Druze, Mandaeans, Yazidis, Samaritans and others have.
If Copts, Zoroastrians, Druze, Mandaeans, Yazidis, Samaritans had migrated to Europe they would have been obliterated. Jews have always been given special treatment. My understanding is that none of those are a diaspora people that have migrated to the territory of a foreign population that is comparable to Jews migrating to Europe. A continuity among indigenous people is very different than a diaspora being allowed to establish themselves in a foreign land.
I expect they would probably have been treated similarly to the Jews.
Zoroastrians certainly have, that’s what Parsis are.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link