This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
I've explained exactly nothing about my reaction to the evidence. The only thing I have talked about is my critique of how the point was made. You are familiar with the Motte yes? This is very much our bread and butter. Nearly any point can be made, but we have rules and a culture around HOW the point should be made.
It should be plain, it should be written as is people you disagree with are reading and you WANT them to read. It should avoid Boo Outgrouping and should optimize for light and not heat etc. etc.
Could you help him rewrite his post so that people with a fetish for castrating children felt more included in the conversation? That would be a very helpful and productive alternative to complaining about his tone, and double as active engagement with the evidence.
You two could even do an adversarial collaboration on it!
Your conduct throughout this thread has been terrible, and you have collected an impressive number of reports by being an antagonistic jerk.
This not being the first, second, or third time you've been warned, you're getting a three-day ban.
ETA: Increased to 7 days for insults via DM.
More options
Context Copy link
What do you think I am doing, in engaging with a topic I otherwise don't care about? I am offering suggestions (which the OP is free to ignore!) about why his approach came across as partisan and didn't I think have the impact he intended. I am much more interested in the meta ideas of how we should communicate in this space than I am in his choice of topic.
I'm far from the only one to have noticed this issue and not even just on this side of the fence. Cultural norms are the most valuable part of this space in my opinion and the way to keep those going is through discussion and feedback on the part of Motteizens. I bear no ill will to the OP, I'm on a sub where we can discuss the The Jewish problem, HBD, Trans castration , furry fetishists and reasoned discussions about tax levels for a reason after all.
I'm not a progressive, even if I tend to represent them here, due to lack of voices.
Well you know, call me a fascist Nazi, but if it's a matter of people with sexual fetishes about castrating minors getting to make policy, that will be used as recommendations by medical and government bodies, on surgical procedures that, in effect, castrate minors, then hell yeah I'm partisan on this one.
(Somebody better at grammar than me count up all the commas in that sentence and tell me if I came out right at the end).
It's absolutely ok to be partisan on pretty much any topic. Almost everyone is. But one of the thing that makes this space special is trying very much to write in as non-partisan a way as possible in my opinion.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link