site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of February 3, 2025

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

5
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

Partially agree. Judith is making a horseshoe point without realizing it.

2025 Trump is a far-right anti-institutionalist identarian. Sanders and the Squad would be popular analogues on the left. On both sides, these people express glee at the suffering of others (fuck karens, fuck billionaires, fuck immigrants, fuck trans people etc). They're contrasted by painfully indecisive centralists. 'Decision by Committee' is a slur in business, but also the explicit goal of centrist govts.

The reason her point hits home for the ring-wing, is because right wing centrists lost all power. Post-Jan 6, there was a rout, and the likes of Mitt Romney have been purged. On the democratic side, Bernie was successfully sidelined by Biden and 'The Squad' has been dismantled. The left's centrists are strong, so the sadism of their identarian wing is suppressed.

To be clear, I am a follower of Trump, and part of my evidence for the thesis advanced here comes from introspection on my own psychology. It feels good to define yourself and your own as Inside, and others as Outside, and to apportion to each what is rightly due.

We all have a sadistic side to us. Like epigenetics, we choose to indulge in sadism when our zeitgeist promotes it. Have you only started indulging your sadism post-Trump ? Or has it always been indulged internally, with an external facade to fit into a zeitgeist that promoted restraint ? Even as adults, I know many smart people, who turn into total jackasses when they're around that one dude (we all know one such dude). Those same people have confessed to feeling terrible afterwards, when I talked to them 1:1. Not pretend confessed, I mean 'bawling their eyes out' confessed. You can't always blame unintentional cult members for the sins of a hypnotic leader.


I have a sneaking suspicion that the extreme left's failure has to do with ex-communist nations still being shit-holes. Communism has caused suffering more recently than Nazism. There are people alive who remember how horrible it was. The WW2 veterans are all dead, and the Axis powers are all successful nations now. Italy, Germany, Japan....all great places to live. History is cyclical because only visceral experiences can shape a man. Once those with scar tissue drop dead, no amount of WW2 movies can communicate those horrors to new youth. They must make the same mistakes again.