site banner
PaperclipPerfector  6d ago (text post)   31305 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of January 27, 2025

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

5
Top Bottom Old Controversial Comments
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

https://unrollnow.com/status/1884339632210600161

In regards to its crudeness, it's not easy to figure out what these NGOs are up to. You not only have to track the grants, but you have to track who the grantees themselves grant to. Sometimes its a network that includes loops where A owns B and C, and then C owns part of A, D, and E. They all receive grants from the government, other NGOs, individuals, and even grant to each other.

Of course, it's not impossible to figure out if money is being used to encourage illegal immigration. But it would take a very long time.

Maybe it's easy to strike it all and then add back the necessary stuff. I hope they do so quickly.

And they're getting grants from the USDA? And the Departments of Commerce, Defense, Energy, Transportation, and VA, plus the FCC, Library of Congress, NASA, and Social Security Administration? Some of the programs listed, I could believe, but why would it be necessary to pause all of them?

Yes, of course all those departments award grants that are used for DEI, encouraging immigration, or other progressive political purposes. But you should tweet this at DataRepublican and see what she can dig up. It might surprise you!

That said, if you want an argument that Trump did the right thing here, please find someone else. I don't think he should have frozen all funding. I can see why he did it, but I think he should have taken more time. Even if the net gains are huge, people will be hurt and it could have been partially avoided.

people will be hurt and it could have been partially avoided.

And that is what some people mean when they repeat the phrase "war is hell".

War is politics (by a particular means), and good people are going to get killed/the works of their lives are going to get wasted.

Yes, of course all those departments award grants that are used for DEI, encouraging immigration, or other progressive political purposes.

I'm missing something - I thought we were having a conversation based on your comment:

Here's a good theory for why this is happening. It's all about immigration.

Are they throwing out the Congressionally-appropriated babies with the DEI-HR Lady-Complex bathwater, as the memo states, or is it "all about immigration," as you say is a good theory? If the latter, why did they need to pause grants from all the departments I listed? The Trump administration's stance on immigration is far from "strategically ambiguous."

Point taken. It's not all about immigration, just a very large chunk of it. Thank you for the clarification. I've edited my original comment.

What is this place?

This website is a place for people who want to move past shady thinking and test their ideas in a court of people who don't all share the same biases. Our goal is to optimize for light, not heat; this is a group effort, and all commentators are asked to do their part.

The weekly Culture War threads host the most controversial topics and are the most visible aspect of The Motte. However, many other topics are appropriate here. We encourage people to post anything related to science, politics, or philosophy; if in doubt, post!

Check out The Vault for an archive of old quality posts. You are encouraged to crosspost these elsewhere.


Why are you called The Motte?

A motte is a stone keep on a raised earthwork common in early medieval fortifications. More pertinently, it's an element in a rhetorical move called a "Motte-and-Bailey", originally identified by philosopher Nicholas Shackel. It describes the tendency in discourse for people to move from a controversial but high value claim to a defensible but less exciting one upon any resistance to the former. He likens this to the medieval fortification, where a desirable land (the bailey) is abandoned when in danger for the more easily defended motte. In Shackel's words, "The Motte represents the defensible but undesired propositions to which one retreats when hard pressed."

On The Motte, always attempt to remain inside your defensible territory, even if you are not being pressed.


New post guidelines

If you're posting something that isn't related to the culture war, we encourage you to post a thread for it. A submission statement is highly appreciated, but isn't necessary for text posts or links to largely-text posts such as blogs or news articles; if we're unsure of the value of your post, we might remove it until you add a submission statement. A submission statement is required for non-text sources (videos, podcasts, images).

Culture war posts go in the culture war thread; all links must either include a submission statement or significant commentary. Bare links without those will be removed.

If in doubt, please post it!


Rules


Recommended Posts And Communities

Recommended Realtime Chats