This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Then those are people for whom a flu shot seems like a good proposition.
That might be, I'm no doctor. But then the argument just turns into: Nobody ever gets the flu here anyways.
That sucks and you have my sympathy, but it's my policy to trust my own observations above most else. If it's any olive branch: When I did have covid, I locked myself up tight and didn't leave the house for four weeks. It's not like I'm advocating for running around retirement homes while you're fully symptomatic. Did the people you lost catch it from the unvaccinated?
It possibly was, but the later post seemed to stray into mistake theory.
No, they're both negligible, if I were to attempt objectivity. But covid did me no lasting harm whereas policy did, so there's my enmity.
To my knowledge I haven't hurt anyone. I think
Agreed on the second point. I started out with that position, you know - early on the in the so-called pandemic I was all for closing the borders and exterminating that foreign invader. I changed my mind as a) it became clear that it wouldn't work no matter what and b) most around me were hypocrites who valued being vaccinated for its own sake more than getting rid of the virus or protecting anyone.
As for the first point - I disagree for this specific virus.
I'm a German in Germany. The lockdowns were middle-of-the-road, I suppose. Bad, but nothing like China. What infuriates me is a) how all the measures and the public discourse ended up revolving around punishments for the unvaccinated - no idea whether you had that in America - and b) all the damage done and c) how nobody learned anything from it all.
More options
Context Copy link