site banner
naraburns  nihil supernum  2yr ago (text post)   36583 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of October 24, 2022

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

20
Top Bottom Old Controversial Comments
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

COVID measures were a tax on conscientiousness and I think corrosive to our society’s health in ways we are only beginning to understand. I think most westerners are so a-historical and complacent that they don’t think real oppression can happen to them. Most peoples response was “I support lockdowns” because that was the pro-social thing to say, while at the same time flouting all the rules personally. They lived as if there would not be personal consequences to their actions in defiance of the rules. And they were right, of course too bad about all the businesses that failed, but we needed to do it to save the marginal old person.

This is dangerous and the worst of both worlds. People don’t care about the loss of their de jure liberty and just assume the justice system won’t come for them. We eroded faith in law and order at the same time as we sent a strong signal to the state that we will accept state overreach. And the people who protested? In Canada we froze their bank accounts and declared martial law.

Say what you want about lax US gun laws, but they do deter the type of protest that we saw in Canada. Nobody would do that here, because homeowners would be outside brandishing forearms firearms.

Nobody would do that here

Sure they would- California has lots of guns, but that didn't stop the early 90s race riots; $major_US_city metropolis has lots of guns, but that didn't stop the peaceful but fiery protests from consuming them. Rittenhouse was the end of it, but they certainly gave him hell for it and his friend was convicted anyway.

The problem is that you actually need a legal leg to stand on, and the Canadian right gave no reason beyond what is typical for protests for the citizens of Ottawa to start sniping from their expensive apartment balconies. Not that they even had any guns, given they're the ones begging the government to act aggressively against the people that do, but still.

Didn't help in the US either. Instead of rioters being deterred, defenders of own homes got prosecuted for merely brandishing.

brandishing forearms.

Sun's out, guns out?

I was already immunized to government propaganda before the Covid psy-op.

After the Russia election hack psy-op, the Hunter Biden psy-op, the white supremacy psy-op, the Charlottesville psy-op... Gamergate...

Nothing bad really happened to me, ties were further strained with family, for example my mom hoping I'd lose my job to the OSHA federal mandate that was shot down.

This was a practice run for the next big thing, and hopefully we survive that one too.

I don't know how many people actually changed their view over that, but if they still have faith in their government, 'Science', 'the experts' etc, it seems that there is not much that can be done for them.

What is this place?

This website is a place for people who want to move past shady thinking and test their ideas in a court of people who don't all share the same biases. Our goal is to optimize for light, not heat; this is a group effort, and all commentators are asked to do their part.

The weekly Culture War threads host the most controversial topics and are the most visible aspect of The Motte. However, many other topics are appropriate here. We encourage people to post anything related to science, politics, or philosophy; if in doubt, post!

Check out The Vault for an archive of old quality posts. You are encouraged to crosspost these elsewhere.


Why are you called The Motte?

A motte is a stone keep on a raised earthwork common in early medieval fortifications. More pertinently, it's an element in a rhetorical move called a "Motte-and-Bailey", originally identified by philosopher Nicholas Shackel. It describes the tendency in discourse for people to move from a controversial but high value claim to a defensible but less exciting one upon any resistance to the former. He likens this to the medieval fortification, where a desirable land (the bailey) is abandoned when in danger for the more easily defended motte. In Shackel's words, "The Motte represents the defensible but undesired propositions to which one retreats when hard pressed."

On The Motte, always attempt to remain inside your defensible territory, even if you are not being pressed.


New post guidelines

If you're posting something that isn't related to the culture war, we encourage you to post a thread for it. A submission statement is highly appreciated, but isn't necessary for text posts or links to largely-text posts such as blogs or news articles; if we're unsure of the value of your post, we might remove it until you add a submission statement. A submission statement is required for non-text sources (videos, podcasts, images).

Culture war posts go in the culture war thread; all links must either include a submission statement or significant commentary. Bare links without those will be removed.

If in doubt, please post it!


Rules


Recommended Posts And Communities

Recommended Realtime Chats