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naraburns  nihil supernum  2yr ago (text post)   36582 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of October 24, 2022

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This is a naked assertion

Please see the many links in my other post, all of which use definitions which include the intent to have sex

I'm unconcerned with whether these teachers and activist want to fuck kids. The behavior that ticks every checkbox of grooming except, maybe, intent is a harm in and off itself.

That might well be true. But it is not relevant to the issue of whether those people are engaged in "grooming."

And furthermore, you seem awfully determined that only people who rape children can be called proper "groomers". What about people who just want to isolate and murder children? What about people who want to torture children?

So, because all groomers harm children, all who harm children are groomers? You are arguing that, because all Xs are Ys, all Ys are Xs. That is a logical fallacy. The people you describe are evil. But they obviously are not within the meaning of the term "groomers," since that term refers to those who intend to engage in sexual activity. And, for all I know, gender activists are evil, too. But they are nevertheless not groomers, because they lack the requisite intent.

So, because all groomers harm children, all who harm children are groomers? You are arguing that, because all Xs are Ys, all Ys are Xs.

That's obtuse.

Think of "grooming" as a long con. It's a program of psychological manipulation that targets vulnerable children and conditions them to a mindset that accepts abuse as a form of care. Obviously, if a stranger walks up to child out of the blue and abuses them, they are not a groomer. A groomer assumes a role of a trust and care in a child's life and convinces them that abuse is good for them. Whether the end product of that abuse is sexual or physical or psychological, the grooming approach is the same. And, IMO, a groomer doesn't even need to acknowledge to themselves that they are harming the child. A lot of abusers trick themselves into thinking that their abuse is utilitarian.

[For a look at a masterful real-life groomer, watch the doc Abducted in Plain Sight on Netflix or the new drama miniseries of the same story, Friend of the Family on Peacock. That guy was a genius in all the worst ways. He groomed an entire family, methodically.]

accepts abuse as a form of care

That's cool but what abuse specifically?

We're in a sixth grade social science class. The teacher is covering a history of the liberation movements of the 60s, and is describing how they bravely fought for gender exploration, which is good and everyone should consider their gender and here's some resources and links and support communities, join the school LGBTQ alliance discord, try out identities like clothing see which ones you like that are better, three years later sally is steve and john is jane. Okay. That isn't a major path to children transitioning, but let's just say it is, for the hypothetical.

So - what was the grooming? Was it the 'here's the discord, here's the links, here's the resources'? Okay. If grooming is 'preparing a child for abuse' - where was the abuse at the hands of the teacher?

A groomer assumes a role of a trust and care in a child's life and convinces them that abuse is good for them.

Is the teacher obtaining sexual gratification from ... the abuse? What abuse?

Whether the end product of that abuse is sexual or physical or psychological, the grooming approach is the same. And, IMO, a groomer doesn't even need to acknowledge to themselves that they are harming the child. A lot of abusers trick themselves into thinking that their abuse is utilitarian.

That would suggest that if you believe religious indoctrination is psychologically harmful to the kids, that pretty much all religious figures are groomers. They build up a relationship, assert authority, define what is good or bad, have specific places where they instruct kids. They of course don't see it as harm but your definition means that is irrelevant, and many ex-Catholics do feel that the level of guilt they were subject to was harmful.

At which point I think the definition is too broad to be useful.

I mean, yes? A key difference is parental involvement, and those indoctrinations being time-tested for not being wildly destructive for most people. But I would be similarly dismayed if there were some small but visible on social media movement of conservative youth pastors to infiltrate the school system and use their position to convince teen girls to immediately marry an older man and birth a quiverful of babies. This happened an ocean away, and it was still considered worthy of the news bringing it to my attention a few months ago; I am comfortable suggesting that girl was groomed.

A key difference is parental involvement, and those indoctrinations being time-tested for not being wildly destructive for most people.

But if they groomed the parents first into their beliefs....

See this is the issue with expanding the definitions that much. It becomes way too broad. It also favors first movers as to who can groom 1 generation into some kind of belief.

And we do see people here criticizing parents who push their kids into trans behaviors even. So that again would also transfer that complaint to religious parents. If everyone is a groomer then no-one is basically.

I know what groomers do. What does that have to do with whether someone whose intent is to murder or torture children, rather have sex with them, is a groomer, as WhiningCall said? Your comment seems to respond neither to his claim, or mine.

And, yes, I know that a groomer does not have to think of themselves as harming the child. See the guys featured here, several of whom are clearly delusional. Again, I am not sure how that is relevant.

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