This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
What makes you think US TFR would've stayed high? Entirely possible a no-mass migration USA has a much, much smaller population, is majority minority(you know heritage americans are like forty percent black, right? Now add in the preexisting hispanics and natives in conquered territories), and has vast utterly undeveloped hinterlands.
TFR among Americans stayed high with mass migration because there was vast cheap land and no birth control. TFR among Americans remained high in areas of the country which didn't have big waves of immigration ( or at least that particular wave going to other parts at the same time). Pre-birth control and women's "liberation," I see no good reason to think mass migration had much of an effect on TFR of heritage Americans, let alone a significantly positive one. The US was regularly getting >30% population growth every 10 years before mass immigration (even removing immigrants), e.g., in the 1790-1820, the total number of new immigrants (not counting people who left), averaged around an estimated 180k total over 30 years while the total US population increased by over 5.5M, a gain of >245%.
Yes, it's entirely possible the US would have a lower population without the waves of immigrants in the 19th century. Maybe we'd have a population of only 200,000,000, still larger than the population the US had during WW2, and 1950, 1960, and 1970 when the US was hardly an undeveloped backwater.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link