This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Have you met anyone who went to Cupertino high school? I have met several, and while it's true they aren't smoking crack in the back of the bus, they are some of the most maladjusted individuals I've met who still function in society.
Absolutely no desires or aspirations, a dead look in the eyes, mania, depression, depravity, etc etc. Yeah, they make fat stacks of cash writing CRUD apps for big tech - but at what cost?
…
Surely this proves the existence of at least one desire/aspiration?
IME there is a fairly hard upper bound on the depravity of sons and (especially) daughters of Asian immigrant PMC strivers, who of course constitute a solid majority of Bay Area high schoolers. The occasional use of molly at raves notwithstanding, I’ve never known any of them to go seriously off the rails (pun very much intended) with hard drugs, alcohol, partying, casual sex, etc. But perhaps you have a different definition of “depravity”; indeed I think it’s safe to say that many of them show a depraved lack of empathy for their fellow man.
(I actually agree with the broader sentiment, though: Bay Arianism does tend to produce an unhealthy amount of soulless money/status optimizers)
It's more like the path of least resistance for these people. They are simply acting out the script that their parents laid out.
I have known multiple such Cupertino alumni.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
Yes, and those are the "successful" graduates.
My niece goes to Cupertino HS. She claims to suffer "trauma", like 50%+ of her classmates. Her psychologist agrees (just like the psychologists of those 50%+ of her classmates do).
The amount of pressure those students heap on themselves, on top of the high expectations of the parents, seriously distorts their perception of reality. What does it mean to be "successful"? Is it enough to graduate HS and get a job / start a family? No, of course not. A "successful" person successfully founds a start-up, or at the very least goes to one of the universities on The List, where they will successfully found a start-up (or, as a distant second, get a highly remunerative PMC career).
And the alternative? If you don't have it in you to write that killer app by the age of 15, if you gods-forbid don't get into any of the universities on The List... well, that's it, you failed. And indeed you did, if your definition of "success" is to have the means to continue to live in the Bay Area. And no, you didn't make those nice networking connections with the "successful" classmates--they are not interested in burdening their networks with failures.
Fortunately, the Bay Area culture also offers a ready alternative to owning your failure: you are a Person with Disability, it's not your fault. My niece is on all the trendy spectra.
My niece is a bright girl, and I have urged that she come live with me for a while in the Flyover Country and go to a regular school for a change. Recalibrating would do her a world of good. Alas, no luck so far.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link