This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
What's the "good point" here? This is just the conservative heatmap meme with some liberal keywords thrown in.
In fact, most "owns" on abortion in particular tend to be insipid. Not sure why.
Perhaps that's a sign that there's a deep disagreement we can't resolve beneath it all. So all owns must caricature the opponent or be unsatisfying since they can't fully resolve the issue with the level of certainty and decisiveness desired.
I mean, you could also argue that most people who buy into these sorts of ideas don't relinquish their "privilege" either, despite rhetorical concessions.
In fact, they use these concessions to better abuse their less enlightened fellow citizens. You'd think a pastor would be aware of the issues around ostentatious piety.
Or that well-meaning but ultimately harmful policy is not a good idea for governments. No matter what Christians do in their private life.
I think it’s cynicism. It’s like you can’t quite except that the people you disagree with are reasoning honestly from moral priors and thus they must somehow be choosing to act on a belief but perhaps not some other one out of a calculated social standing perspective. To be fair, there are vanity beliefs and issues that people choose for the purpose of securing a place in the social hierarchy, but at the same time, there are genuine believers in almost any movement.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link