site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of December 9, 2024

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

6
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

I agree whole-heartedly. I'm not sure what insurance actually adds to the system given that the government is already subsidizing the kinds of people that really need insurance and the fact that insurance companies are incredibly reluctant to actually shell out the cash that they agreed to.

I'm not sure what insurance actually adds to the system

Health insurance companies are a tax collector (and insurance premiums a de facto payroll tax) that doesn't get voted out of office for raising middle/upper-middle class taxes, unlike politicians. Also, they (and the provider-level admins fighting them) are a massive white collar welfare program, with millions of marginally to highly educated workers drawing salaries to perform the office work equivalent of digging holes and filling them back up again for no reason.

Cost control. It's keeping cost from going to infinity even faster than it is, given the limited supply and destruction of price signals by law and custom. The insurance company's reluctance to shell out cash is an essential service.

Untrue, especially in context of the 80:20 rule which means higher premiums directly equal higher profits because margins are effectively capped. Even beyond that, insurance cost control is highly limited to a few high profile cases. And again, much of the most expensive healthcare for chronic or long-standing conditions is funded directly by the state for the old and poor.

There’s no evidence that single payer nationalized systems are more generous. In fact, US private insurers are by far the most generous healthcare insurers when it comes to overspending on drugs and surgery in the entire world. Meanwhile, the most socialized systems like the NHS are often criticized for not paying for million-dollar treatments so that kids with incurable diseases can live in pain for an extra month and play hardball with big pharma even for very valuable drugs.

Yeah, I've seen it said that American lefties dream about Euro-style health care system because they think that such a system will dole out treatments at will and for asking, basically, when that is generally not the case at all.

One quirk of the UK system is that drugs prescribed by an NHS doctor cost like $12 per prescription to pick up at a pharmacy. This fee is mostly the same regardless of medication.

But the old, the poor, and children are exempted from this fee. Because these people consume almost all drugs, this means that 95% of all prescriptions are free. So all the fee amounts to is an extra tax for 18-60 year old functioning, gainfully employed adults when they need medication. The US system reminds me of this.

One contributor to the UK's economic dysfunction is probably that we have a slim majority of the population with living standards that have been entirely insulated from the wider state of the economy, by pensions, welfare, or otherwise. Causes all kinds of political malincentives to place almost all the burden on a dwindling share of gainfully employed childbearing-age adults, while giving them nothing in return. The prescription exemptions are just a tiny fraction of the whole system.