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PaperclipPerfector  17d ago (text post)   30848 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of December 2, 2024

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You have asked for a number of representations of "price" none of which impact your personal bill. I don't think you understand how health insurance works.

I'm not lying about what you've asked for, but I don't think you understand what you asked for.

If you're going to lie about which numbers I'm asking for, we're going to sit here all day, and your final argument will be, "If I lie about what numbers you're asking for..., then..." We will just leave it there for posterity.

I am not lying about which numbers you are asking for. I have responded to the numbers you have asked for, and explained that they don't do what you think they do and gave you a chance to correct my understanding with an example, were you able to furnish one. I even talked about numbers you didn't ask for, and explained how those might be more relevant.

I also tried to make it clear using a metaphor you have used in the past (automotive repair) and with a simplified scenario (the oranges discussion).

In both cases you accused me of "incoherent babbling."

You should not accuse someone of lying when what they are asking for is for you to explain what you mean, and to be clear what that is "explain what relevance the number you are asking for has to your decision making."

If you're going to lie about which numbers I'm asking for, we're going to sit here all day, and your final argument will be, "If I lie about what numbers you're asking for..., then..." We will just leave it there for posterity.

explain what relevance

You can't even identify the numbers we are talking about without lying. We can't get to relevance if you're that clueless/nefarious.

You can't even identify the numbers we are talking about without lying. We can't get to relevance if you're that clueless/nefarious.

If you think I have misunderstood what numbers you are asking for then it is your obligation to correct me and say "I was asking for this." I may then argue that you have changed what you are asking for (and you have), or that you have misunderstood what you are asking for (which is now my argument).

Accusing me of being wrong is reasonable and acceptable. Deciding this discussion is no longer worth your time is reasonable and acceptable. Accusing me of lying is not. If I am wrong, correct me instead of shouting "liar."

If you're going to lie about which numbers I'm asking for, we're going to sit here all day, and your final argument will be, "If I lie about what numbers you're asking for..., then..." We will just leave it there for posterity.

it is your obligation to correct me

I did that. You can go back and read it. Now, you need to show that you are capable of identifying which numbers I'm asking for.

If you're going to lie about which numbers I'm asking for, we're going to sit here all day, and your final argument will be, "If I lie about what numbers you're asking for..., then..." We will just leave it there for posterity.

I did not lie about the numbers, all numbers you have asked for do not apply to the amount you pay and cannot be used to make decisions for that reason given your initial conditions.

If you would like to you change your initial conditions you can. For instance if you do not have insurance, you may be asked to pay an amount of money, which is mostly unrelated to the numbers you were asking for at most hospitals (but not always!).

In fact let us explain health insurance.

Health insurance is not like most bills you receive in your life. The numbers only peripherally matter to the hospital and the insurance company and don't matter at all to you.

You pay an amount (typically zero in the situation you proposed) but may include a small fee called a copay instead.

Your insurance pays the rest. The hospital charges a functionally arbitrary amount. The insurance company gives them a functionally arbitrary amount back.

If you have bad insurance they may try and make you pay some amount and claim it is not covered. This number has nothing to do with the health system and the health system has highly limited ability to know about this in advance. If your plan is very bad this number may be rather high. This is the gamble you play if you have a bad plan, but how bad your plan is between you and your health insurance company.

It occurs to me now that you may be complaining about high deductible plans. If this is the case you should have just asked that. If you are getting a surgery done and the question is "is this going to fuck my deductible" the answer is almost always going to be yes. This is a reasonable question to ask and I invite you to ask your surgeon this. The answer likely be "I am not in charge of your insurance plan, but yes." It does not require an exhaustive breakdown of anything.

If you're going to lie about which numbers I'm asking for, we're going to sit here all day, and your final argument will be, "If I lie about what numbers you're asking for..., then..." We will just leave it there for posterity.

You need to show that you are capable of identifying which numbers I'm asking for.

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