This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
You're ignoring what I've written time and time again. I am asking you to simply inform your patient about the charge you are going to submit to their insurance and the negotiated rate. That is information that can be useful. You are correct that it is not an exact description of exactly what they will pay out of pocket. There are also deductibles, co-insurance, out-of-pocket max, etc. That's not to do with you; that's why you're not telling them those other things. You're telling them the information that you have - the charge that you are going to submit to their insurance and the negotiated rate. You have this information. You can tell them. Just tell them.
My hospital charges three oranges, a second hospital charges two oranges, a third hospital charges four oranges. Your insurance gives all three hospitals a single banana. Regardless of which hospital you go to, your insurance makes you pay three sticks of whole wheat pasta.
Why then is it valuable to know how many oranges my hospital vs. the other two charges?
It has no impact on your pasta. It has no impact on your pasta. It has no impact on your pasta.
If you just want to know so you can know...that's fine. Curiosity is reasonable. Spending money to figure out things for your curiosity is not necessarily reasonable however.
The only proposed use for the orange you've given me is for "informed consent," but informed consent would be the pasta, not the orange. The orange has no impact on the patient.
If it has one please provide it.
Your charge and the negotiated rate are both denominated in US dollars in the US. (So are all of the other terms in their health insurance policy.) US legal tender laws are a hell of a drug, so unless you're extremely transparent up front about your pricing structure being in terms of oranges (in which case, you are probably transparent enough as it is... and you certainly don't work with any US-based insurance companies), yours is denominated in US dollars, too.
I mean, this is how silly you've gotten. Wow. I hope you're really good at medicine, because I'm starting to get the impression that you just don't understand how any other aspect of the world works.
Let me make it simple again. You are asking for a number in dollars that has no meaning to the patient. The number in dollars that has meaning to the patient is something else. Why do you want a number in dollars that has no meaning instead of a number in dollars that has meaning?
It does, indeed, have meaning to the patient. It can matter, as you have already agreed. They even see the same numbers on their Explanation Of Benefits, which they currently get, just after it's too late for them to consent. They have meaning there, too. Have you never read an EOB?
We have not agreed on this.
Yes, we did.
I said it mattered for apples. We are talking about oranges.
Your EOB has pineapples, guava, and pasta on it, but not oranges.
You're babbling. Incoherently. Please use actually relevant words. Aren't you supposed to know something about this topic, at a technical level? How come you can't even use the proper terminology?
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link