This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
The idea that Taylor Swift’s endorsement was going to sway the election was always stupid. Anyone who would be swayed to vote for Kamala Harris because Taylor Swift told them to was already going to vote for Harris. Her country music fans wrote her off some time around 2012. And it really didn’t help with the grim impression that all the oligarchs were closing ranks around Harris the chosen political industry plant.
Regarding your second point, I know slobbering over TayTay is the Motte’s favorite pastime, but she’s a mercenary. She’s never going to genuinely “come around” to anything. She will go with whatever Current Thing makes her the most money.
You could apply this reasoning to any individual instance of something meant to persuade. Advertising doesn't do any good, for instance; who's going to buy Coke instead of Pepsi because they heard an ad?
Each instance of persuasion affects some people at the margin, and pushes more people closer to the margin so they can be affected by the next thing that affects people at the margin. The fact that the number is small doesn't mean that it's zero or that a lot of such things can't be significant.
I mean... I'm pretty sure that's true though. Advertising is obviously useful if you are a company nobody has ever heard of (or if you are an established company with a new product). But it is pretty clearly a waste of money for Coke to run most of their ads, and it only persists because nobody is brave enough to stick his neck out and try to not run them.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link