This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Worse than alienating swifties it could potentially alienate Swift herself. While I get the sense that the value of an individual celebrity endorsement is near zero, I believe that the impression that all socially desirable people support the Democrats is probably worth a great deal (but not enough to carry an election on its own of course). I believe that left to her own devices Swift would likely come around to supporting conservatives in time. She's rich, she's white, she's heterosexual, she has a white meathead boyfriend.
Look at Lana del Rey, in 2016 she was a witch putting a hex on Trump. In 2024 she married an obvious Trump supporting, camo wearing boat guide from Louisiana. Look at her Instagram now, she has made no political posts and all the comments are from people berating her and assuming that her silence tacitly implies support for Trump. Swift will come around too, just give her time and don't be too mean.
The idea that Taylor Swift’s endorsement was going to sway the election was always stupid. Anyone who would be swayed to vote for Kamala Harris because Taylor Swift told them to was already going to vote for Harris. Her country music fans wrote her off some time around 2012. And it really didn’t help with the grim impression that all the oligarchs were closing ranks around Harris the chosen political industry plant.
Regarding your second point, I know slobbering over TayTay is the Motte’s favorite pastime, but she’s a mercenary. She’s never going to genuinely “come around” to anything. She will go with whatever Current Thing makes her the most money.
More options
Context Copy link
She just did a land acknowledgement before a concert, and yes, it was as cringe as expected.
Swift is following the normal trajectory of what is expected of white women in America; signal being socially progressive, be a striver, support neolib Democratic Party candidates.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link