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PaperclipPerfector  10hr ago (text post)   386 thread views

Friday Fun Thread for November 8, 2024

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Given that a Duchy can be meaningfully sovereign (they have their own laws, for example), I don't see why the US States and Canadian Provinces can't be Duchy-tier titles. The average present-day population of a US state is 6 million, and the median is 4.5 million. The typical present-day population of a CK2 de jure Duchy in Western Europe looks like 2-3 million (much higher in England because of industrial-era population growth) vs about 15 million for a Kingdom. Also, the nearest equivalent to US states in terms of their shared sovereignty are the Electorates of the HRE, which are Duchy-tier. I think the US was a Kingdom-tier title at the time of the founding (given that it was plausible for the British Empire to vassalize it) and became an Empire in the usual way once it de facto controlled 80% of its de jure territory.

population

But what about area? Personally, I feel that a useful statistic for comparing the "sizes" of geographic entities with significantly different population densities is the product of population and area.

  • K. of Bavaria: 9.4⋅1011 people⋅km2

  • K. of Austria: 7.6⋅1011 people⋅km2

  • K. of Pennsylvania: 1.6⋅1012 people⋅km2

  • K. of Virginia: 6.3⋅1011 people⋅km2

Also, what really matters is the inherent prestige of the title, not what the title actually controls. The ERE was an empire even when reduced to one province.

I think the US was a Kingdom-tier title at the time of the founding (given that it was plausible for the British Empire to vassalize it) and became an Empire in the usual way once it de facto controlled 80% of its de jure territory.

Well, we can imagine that the de jure map changes as population density skyrockets with the colonization of virgin land. Start with the sparsely-populated colonies as duchies, the Dominion of New England as a failed kingdom, and the USA as a successful kingdom. Then at some point (between EU4 and V3) population density becomes high enough that the states now are important enough to be considered kingdoms. The sea-to-shining-sea USA can be a hegemony, encompassing the empires of New England, the Mid-Atlantic, the South, the Midwest, Louisiana, and the West. (Or something vaguely similar to that.)

K. of Bavaria: 9.4⋅1011 people⋅km2 K. of Austria: 7.6⋅1011 people⋅km2

Per ck2wiki, Austria is a de jure Duchy and the Kingdom of Bavaria covers a much larger area than modern Bavaria, including most of modern Austria. So those numbers are too low for a CK2 Kingdom. I don't have time to boot up a game right now, but will check when I do.

Come for the politics, stay for the Paradox nerdery. Brett Devereaux for antipope!

CK2Wiki

The kingdoms of Bavaria and Austria as they existed in the Victoria 3 time period are more relevant for comparison to US states, IMO. I think those borders are essentially identical to today's borders.

I haven't played any Vicky or HOI titles, unfortunately (and I haven't played enough EUIV). This thread began with a Glitterhoof post, so I assumed we were playing CK2.

I was imagining a CK2-ish game extending from the CK2 time period all the way through the V3 time period—like [insert one of the vaporware yet-to-be-released Paradox competitor games].

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