site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of October 21, 2024

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

8
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

Thank you for putting this sentiment to words. I've been struggling with it for the last week as I try to assemble a last-minute appeal to voters.

Every time I see a "they must just hate freedom" or "they're taking off the mask" or especially "anything is justified if they think they're stopping Hitler!" I want to scream. God damn it, you're missing the point! Most people aren't making a utilitarian calculation. They aren't even reasoning from a coherent philosophy. No, they see good things and bad things, you imbecile, you fucking moron, and they vote for the ones that feel right. Two centuries of civics have sculpted their feelings about all these pretty words like "democracy," "freedom," "rights." But millennia of history etched something deeper.

"He can't keep getting away with it."

The modal Trump hater thinks that he is coarse, unstable, and especially untrustworthy. Seeing him avoid consequences is disappointing. Seeing him get rewarded is frustrating. And seeing his supporters construct an elaborate alternate universe where he actually deserves even more rewards is fucking infuriating. That's all there is to it.

The modal Trump hater thinks that he is coarse, unstable, and especially untrustworthy. Seeing him avoid consequences is disappointing. Seeing him get rewarded is frustrating. And seeing his supporters construct an elaborate alternate universe where he actually deserves even more rewards is fucking infuriating. That's all there is to it.

But this is like, not a surprise, ever. The politicians could be anyone. Hell, it could be sports teams. "/ourguy/ is good and flawless and perfect, your team is stinky and bad and everything they touch is ruined" thinking will be with us forever.

I mean, it's okay to be frustrated at it, but just realize that if you get frustrated at this, then it's probably better for your general wellbeing if you just either check out or accept this is just the way we are wired.

California fucking sucks!

"He can't keep getting away with it."

It seems to me that we Trump supporters also feel this way, simply with a different referent. Hence, Trump.

Well…yeah.

I was pretty tired when I wrote that, but what I really wanted to convey was the simplicity of motive. Especially on forums like this, people love to concoct their elaborate theories, detailed strategic planning over how the outgroup could possibly come to their conclusion—and no, they just think he’s a tool.

It’s like watching a carjacking and writing an essay about the perp’s home life.

Someone once said Republicans like Trump because he hurts the right people. There’s a lot of Democrats who just want the right guy to get hurt. It sucks.