This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
I don't know as much about other domains, but I know a bit about music. Like a lot of people I started in the school band, took lessons as a kid, was in some ensembles in college, but never thought about actually making a living from it. I have played enough to have met some very skilled players over the years, and am acquainted with even more. All the real maestros I've known in my life yes, started young, but they also had at least one parent who was a professional musician at some level, even if its just a highschool choir director. Many of the musicians mentioned above also are the children of musicians. Just growing up surrounded by that world is a huge advantage, IF it ignites something in the child. This is a big IF. No amount of 'pushing' the child into music can really substitute for that internal experience that only some kids get when they're young and exposed to music through a skilled parent, usually around 4 or so. The best guitarist I know is the son of a professional guitarist father and a singer mother. He became fixated on the guitar at 5 years old and was playing 5-10 hours a day by the time he was 10, absolutely obsessed, and has been playing professionally since he was 15. He has 2 brothers and a sister who were somewhat musical as kids, had the same support system in place, but it just didn't take. They went on to be an engineer, doctor, and career naval officer.
Just having a training or educational program to force young kids into isn't enough. Something has to resonate within the child as well to get the exceptional results as an adult you see in the above examples. I've met a lot of people who were, in their opinion, forced into piano, violin, or other prestige instruments as kids, sometimes for over a decade of constant practice. As soon as they got to college and started on a career track in some other high status domain they abandoned music as fast as they could. They never liked it, it was an affectation of their parents own status seeking. In my estimation it takes three components: first, the formal educational/support system mentioned above. Actual correct instruction. Second, internal motivation that can often be described as obsession, like they become addicted to the pursuit as a child, and finally raw biological/genetic talent/potential. This last one is tougher to capture, can't really be instilled, and people just have it or they don't. In music some people just have an amazing ear, as it were, and a memory for music and ability to create/recreate that exceeds what can realistically be taught. A good example of a professional like this is Tori Amos. She had pianist mother, 6 years of conservatory (5-11, she seems to have lacked the raw discipline to go further as she was expelled at 11 for misbehavior), but her innate talent is insane. I'm not really a fan of her music, but I recognize a truly exceptional born-maestro when I meet one. She could perfectly recreate piano pieces from recordings at 5 years old, before she started conservatory, and can easily demonstrate this ability now in her 60s. I've known many very good pianists with decades of experience who can't even begin to recreate by ear like this. Jacob Collier is another example. (as an aside most of the people I've known like this tended to be personally irritating people, not unlike the portrayal of Mozart in that movie from the 80s. Maybe I'm just envious though)
I feel like professional sports are similar to this, but know less about it. My own innate musical talent is ok, probably above average, but no where close to some of the people I've played with who started as kids, took to it like a fish to water, and had the early support and instruction. They're like a different species.
I think it's genes . Same for athletes. it's not a coincidence that the children of professional sports players also tend to get into sports or have above average ability. however, the apple can still fall far from the tree or roll and there is a lot of regression. Brony James for example is only 6′ 2″ compared to his much bigger and better dad. Freeman Dyson's son , a science writer, is quite a step-down from revolutionizing theoretical physics as his dad had done.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link