site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of October 21, 2024

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

8
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

I don't know if I can fully articulate it, but there's something I don't like about that kind of argument. Humans will learn by stealing from other humans, and sometimes that results in humans putting each other out of business. If it's just about the fact that AI can product more quantity of art, easier and cheaper than humans, well, our entire history is one of newer, better, cheaper replacing older and more expensive. Some people spend their lives learning antiquated art forms, and well, that's kinda the breaks, and I don't really believe any amount of cultural outrage could or should change that.

Think about how diminished the role of musicians is in our society since the invention of the record player. Previously, if you wanted music at your event, or you even just wanted to hear music, you had to hire musicians. But we are well over a century of that being not the case, increasingly so as time goes on and recorded music became the norm. Musicians barely earn squat making music these days. It's sadly the case that almost all trained musicians make their primary living teaching other musicians, unless they're one of the lucky few who won the lottery of having an album go platinum.

It's interesting that, as fevered as the opposition to AI art is today, it's nowhere near as hysterical as the kind of Luddism of previous generations. I read an article once that when the player piano was invented, a prominent musician wrote an article calling for it to be banned, arguing that if recorded music became the norm, eventually people would stop singing, our vocal cords would atrophy and we would become a mute species. Apparently he meant this quite sincerely.

Hah, that's really interesting, and I didn't know there was such opposition. Even though I doubt it could result in is being a mute species, truly, I have no clue why it's so important to me to be a competent musician. Why did I, and do I continue to, invest so much time and money in training for a career they I can never even hope to break even on? Maybe these days it's a sunk cost issue for me, and I'm also clinging to music as tied to my identity. And maybe at the start it was me simply not knowing any better, and assuming that a career making music would be easier then a more normal career, before I learned the opposite is true.

Also, there's a bunch of signaling involved. Parents want to signal that their children are talented, so they send them for music lessons. And I when I got older, I wanted to signal that about myself.

Also, somewhere mixed in there is a genuine love of creation and desire to express myself, as well.

I could've written this comment myself. Sitting on my desk are two test presses for the vinyl edition of the album I'm going to be releasing soon. I will not break even on its production.

I wouldn't ask you to dox yourself, but I'd be very interested to hear it!

Will send you a DM when it goes live.