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naraburns  nihil supernum  2yr ago (text post)   33193 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of October 10, 2022

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That is why I referred specifically to 1950, and implicitly to the

USA, when the gender norms deemed nursing to be women's work, and why I said that gender norms often change over time.

1950s USA is this magical reference point for some reason, that justifies introducing a whole new concept called "gender". Actually that's not even surprising, I just wrote a comment on how we are stuck in the 60s on repeat, so yeah I guess comparing ourselves to one decade ago make sense.

So, had I said 1940, instead, when AKAIK the norms were the same, you would agree that gender norms can change? I am really not sure what your position on that is, and of course, that is my entire point. You are picking on the nit that is my admittedly somewhat snarky example, but are not addressing the underlying point.

Just because men and women play different roles, wear different clothes etc at different historical times and technological circumstances doesn't somehow negate that they are men and women. We don't need a new concept (gender) to be able to say that women had lives and jobs like this before but like that after.

Also if gender is merely the difference between the roles in different cultures or times, are transgender people adopting some roles from a different era than today? I thought they transition from male to female etc. and not from 21st century to, I don't know, 8th century.

Come on. I didn’t say that they aren't men and women. I said that norms have changed. My entire point has been that sex and gender mean different things, so how can you believe that I said that?

I don't get the relevance of the transgender question. What transgender people do or feel is not really relevant to what the term "gender" means, nor with whether gender norms are constant or instead change over time and space.

"Gender roles have varied across time and culture" is the motte, "who is male or female has so far been entirely socially constructed to uphold an oppressive patriarchy, but from now on it should actually be decided by everyone themselves based on their inner feelings and this decision is unquestionable" is the bailey.

Perhaps for some people, but not for me, because I have neither said that nor believe it.

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