This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Interesting response, thanks. I agree it's not a bad thing and there's nothing wrong with wanting to make oneself more attractive to women, and that one doesn't need to hide that intention. I think that's a change I could make based on what you said, I could be more clear about my intentions not just in this matter but in all arguments I make. It's definitely one of my intentions, I don't just want to optimize for optimization sake, I want to optimize things I care about, attraction being one, overall strength potential being another, business being another, other health reasons and bone strength later in life being another, etc. Yet only one of those, the attraction one, would create tension if you voiced it in a place not as "free" as this one. I think you make a good point re: I am trying to depoliticize the matter of increasing height. That is true. Perhaps because I want more research or at least inquiry on this front, and when things get political in a way that goes against the mainstream, maybe the research won't get done. Also, I think it matters that there are multiple reasons that increased height and overall size is beneficial.
For example, enough people agree on the many benefits of weightlifting that if a guy is asking how to get stronger (even if he's asking for a reason that disagrees with someone's politics), nobody is going to withhold advice and all would speak freely. Most everyone recognizes the benefit of being stronger. So I suppose I'm trying to get at something like that but for height, although maybe the two are not ever going to be treated similarly. Height is indeed very valued by women, but short stature and frame size also increases cardiometabolic risks later in life, bone strength later in life, a bunch of things really. I started caring about height because of attraction, and caring about frame size for health reasons, but honestly I see so many benefits to both at this point (social benefits and health benefits) that the only reason it isn't treated like weightlifting is because it's really only something you can do if you're a kid, in your teens or in your early 20s, so it's not something most people who need to improve their health (who would likely be older) can do to improve their health, unless research into reopening/inserting natural growth plates comes around, unlike weightlifting which is something anyone can do effectively at any age. That and maybe side effects of HGH.
More options
Context Copy link